**monthly matches**

Seth8541 · Post by **Seth8541** » Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:13 pm

264Charlie wrote:

Seth, no one whats to shoot against you.

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, I got it now. So thats how its gonna be. Come on Charlie, Ill still have all my crappy gear for a little while :lol:

.

Good job today Charlie, thanks for your help, and a big thanks to Randall for making up the COF, targets, cover page, the table of contents (the icing on then cake), and taking the time to make all those copies. I know that turned into an ordeal in its self. Also a thanks out to Randall, Charlie, Curtis, Keith, and Nathan for the help on the line. Without you guys it wouldnt have gone near as smooth

.

264Charlie · Post by **264Charlie** » Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:22 pm

Seth8541 wrote:
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, I got it now. So thats how its gonna be. Come on Charlie, Ill still have all my crappy gear for a little while .

Good job today Charlie, thanks for your help, and a big thanks to Randall for making up the COF, targets, cover page, the table of contents (the icing on then cake), and taking the time to make all those copies. I know that turned into an ordeal in its self. Also a thanks out to Randall, Charlie, Curtis, Keith, and Nathan for the help on the line. Without you guys it wouldnt have gone near as smooth .

No way, you are a NF man now...

Seth8541 · Post by **Seth8541** » Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:26 pm

264Charlie wrote:

No way, you are a NF man now...

Thats true, but I gotta work on the rifle situation now!

MichaelV · Post by **MichaelV** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:13 am

Seth you need to get to our next match!

johnlee · Post by **johnlee** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:56 pm

I just noticed something.

DirtRacer151 wrote: I don't even think we need top 308 since we aren't shooting beyond 500.

James shoots a .260.

Swan wrote:there shouldn't be a Top 308 or anything...

Seth shoots a .260.

MichaelV wrote:I hate to say but "Top 308" doesn't make much sense in our matches. The Top 308 was invented because 6 and 6.5mm bullets have such an advantage at 600+ yards. Inside of that my GAP 308 matches my RR .260.

Mike shoots a .260.

264Charlie wrote:I don't see the need for Top308 at all.

Charlie shoots a 6.5x47 if I recall.

All of the guys in favor of abandoning Top 308 on the ground that .308 isn't a disadvantage don't shoot .308. They all shoot 6.5s.

Is this mere coincidence? Perhaps. Perhaps not.

Swan · Post by **Swan** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:24 pm

johnlee wrote:I just noticed something.

James shoots a .260.

Seth shoots a .260.

Mike shoots a .260.

Charlie shoots a 6.5x47 if I recall.

All of the guys in favor of abandoning Top 308 on the ground that .308 isn't a disadvantage don't shoot .308. They all shoot 6.5s.

Is this mere coincidence? Perhaps. Perhaps not.

I just noticed something as well. The guy who posted this above, is the guy who always wins Top 308 !
Is this mere coincidence? Perhaps. Perhaps not.

... and for the record, I never stated there wasn't an advantage of shooting 6.5 over .308 ;)

Juice5610 · Post by **Juice5610** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:29 pm

johnlee wrote:I just noticed something.

James shoots a .260.

Seth shoots a .260.

Mike shoots a .260.

Charlie shoots a 6.5x47 if I recall.

All of the guys in favor of abandoning Top 308 on the ground that .308 isn't a disadvantage don't shoot .308. They all shoot 6.5s.

Is this mere coincidence? Perhaps. Perhaps not.

John I shoot a 308

MichaelV wrote:I hate to say but "Top 308" doesn't make much sense in our matches. The Top 308 was invented because 6 and 6.5mm bullets have such an advantage at 600+ yards. Inside of that my GAP 308 matches my RR .260.

DirtRacer151 wrote:
yep...i agree

Juice5610 wrote: +1

I completely agree that there is no need for a top 308 at ASR.

johnlee · Post by **johnlee** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:35 pm

Swan wrote:I just noticed something as well. The guy who posted this above, is the guy who always wins Top 308 !
Is this mere coincidence? Perhaps. Perhaps not.

Yeah, but at least I'm honest about it. I want there to be Top 308 so that I can walk away from the matches with something.

ReligiousShooter · Post by **ReligiousShooter** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:56 pm

Shoot a five dot drill with a .308 and then do the drill again with a .260/.243 one after the other. Then say that there is no advantage in shooting a .260 (or .243).

I think the club is going backwards if you take away the top .308 award.

Swan · Post by **Swan** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:20 pm

johnlee wrote:
Yeah, but at least I'm honest about it. I want there to be Top 308 so that I can walk away from the matches with something.

I know. I was just bustin your balls.

DirtRacer151 · Post by **DirtRacer151** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:51 pm

ReligiousShooter wrote:Shoot a five dot drill with a .308 and then do the drill again with a .260/.243 one after the other. Then say that there is no advantage in shooting a .260 (or .243).

a 308 with a custom tube is every bit as accurate at 100yds as a laser. The reason people think otherwise is that most people that shoot 308s start with a factory gun. They don't make factory guns in 6.5L or 260/243.

Swan · Post by **Swan** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:59 pm

DirtRacer151 wrote:

a 308 with a custom tube is every bit as accurate at 100yds as a laser. The reason people think otherwise is that most people that shoot 308s start with a factory gun. They don't make factory guns in 6.5L or 260/243.

In fact, it should be easier with a .308, bigger bullet, more room for error !!

MichaelV · Post by **MichaelV** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:33 pm

johnlee wrote:
Yeah, but at least I'm honest about it. I want there to be Top 308 so that I can walk away from the matches with something.

Well we wouldn't want to baby anyone ; )

brian01tj · Post by **brian01tj** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:47 pm

ReligiousShooter wrote:Shoot a five dot drill with a .308 and then do the drill again with a .260/.243 one after the other. Then say that there is no advantage in shooting a .260 (or .243).

I think the club is going backwards if you take away the top .308 award.

308's and all 6.5/6 mm variants are all going to be just as accurate at 100 yards. Actually its easier to shoot KYL paper targets with a 308...............IT MAKES BIGGER HOLES = MORE MARGIN = BETTER CHANCES OF HITTING THE CIRCLES. The last two matches Ive shot 4 out of the 5 cleanly...then I got greedy in my last match and went for 5 and yanked the piss out of it. Yes I shoot a 308

brian01tj · Post by **brian01tj** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:48 pm

Swan wrote:
In fact, it should be easier with a .308, bigger bullet, more room for error !!

+1 didnt see it posted already

ReligiousShooter · Post by **ReligiousShooter** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:27 pm

.308-.243=.065"

If you half that it becomes .0325"... which would be the actual width advantage the .308 would have over a .243. The advantage over a .260 would be even less.

Bust out the calipers and see what .0325" is ... and then compare that to the added recoil the .308 will have over the .243/.260. Is .0325" worth the recoil? Not to me it isn't.

And as it has already been mentioned... why are most of the people who want to take away top .308 not even shooting .308?

You .308 shooters who want to keep top .308 better pipe up and say something.

Swan · Post by **Swan** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:35 pm

ReligiousShooter wrote:.308-.243=.065"

If you half that it becomes .0325"... which would be the actual width advantage the .308 would have over a .243. The advantage over a .260 would be even less.

Bust out the calipers and see what .0325" is ... and then compare that to the added recoil the .308 will have over the .243/.260. Is .0325" worth the recoil? Not to me it isn't.

And as it has already been mentioned... why are most of the people who want to take away top .308 not even shooting .308?

You .308 shooters who want to keep top .308 better pipe up and say something.

So by that logic, we should have a Top .223, Top .243, Top .260/6.5x47/6.5CM, in addition to a Top .308 award?

All due to the recoil/caliber measurement relationship you posted? Sorry. Not buyin it, but I have had a couple drinks so I take NO responsibility for any posts I make here on out.

BTW, James. You started this whole thread and should be the one "takin the hits" man. :lol:

brian01tj · Post by **brian01tj** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:37 pm

ReligiousShooter wrote:.308-.243=.065"

If you half that it becomes .0325"... which would be the actual width advantage the .308 would have over a .243. The advantage over a .260 would be even less.

Bust out the calipers and see what .0325" is ... and then compare that to the added recoil the .308 will have over the .243/.260. Is .0325" worth the recoil? Not to me it isn't.

And as it has already been mentioned... why are most of the people who want to take away top .308 not even shooting .308?

You .308 shooters who want to keep top .308 better pipe up and say something.

Ok, I'll speak up on our behalf.....who fucking cares about Top 308. At +600 yards matches we do deserve the top 308 trophy, just not our usual 300 yards ones weve been running. Oh wait.....isnt that why this thread got started, to get matches past 300 for a change

DirtRacer151 · Post by **DirtRacer151** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:39 pm

ReligiousShooter wrote:.308-.243=.065"

If you half that it becomes .0325"... which would be the actual width advantage the .308 would have over a .243. The advantage over a .260 would be even less.

Bust out the calipers and see what .0325" is ... and then compare that to the added recoil the .308 will have over the .243/.260. Is .0325" worth the recoil? Not to me it isn't.

And as it has already been mentioned... why are most of the people who want to take away top .308 not even shooting .308?

You .308 shooters who want to keep top .308 better pipe up and say something.

The bullet diameter isn't that big of a deal. Really the only benefit in a 260/243/6.5L/Creed is that they are all customs. Steven has a custom tube on a 308 that Randall built. It shoots every bit as accurate as my 260 from what i've seen. So inside of 600yds there really isn't much benefit in a laser.

brian01tj · Post by **brian01tj** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:40 pm

ReligiousShooter wrote:.308-.243=.065"

If you half that it becomes .0325"... which would be the actual width advantage the .308 would have over a .243. The advantage over a .260 would be even less.

Bust out the calipers and see what .0325" is ... and then compare that to the added recoil the .308 will have over the .243/.260. Is .0325" worth the recoil? Not to me it isn't.

And as it has already been mentioned... why are most of the people who want to take away top .308 not even shooting .308?

You .308 shooters who want to keep top .308 better pipe up and say something.

Heres an idea....trade rifles with Ryan or any other of the top guys and see who shoots a better KYL ;)

MichaelV · Post by **MichaelV** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:40 pm

Swan wrote: I have had a couple drinks so I take NO responsibility for any posts I make here on out.

we've all been there! :lol:

MichaelV · Post by **MichaelV** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:45 pm

brian01tj wrote:
Heres an idea....trade rifles with Ryan or any other of the top guys and see who shoots a better KYL ;)

We should run a .308 only match.

DirtRacer151 · Post by **DirtRacer151** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:46 pm

MichaelV wrote:
We should run a .308 only match.

I would enjoy that actually

Swan · Post by **Swan** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:48 pm

MichaelV wrote:
We should run a .308 only match.

but I don't have one anymore

I wanna play

brian01tj · Post by **brian01tj** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:57 pm

MichaelV wrote:
We should run a .308 only match.

without brakes

Swan · Post by **Swan** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:00 pm

brian01tj wrote:
without brakes

ahh, screw that! I'm out

DirtRacer151 · Post by **DirtRacer151** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:02 pm

Swan wrote:
ahh, screw that! I'm out

haha +1 me too

Post by **AR15barrels** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:26 pm

DirtRacer151 wrote:So inside of 600yds there really isn't much benefit in a laser.

Why do you shoot one then?

DirtRacer151 · Post by **DirtRacer151** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:33 pm

AR15barrels wrote:
Why do you shoot one then?

even though the benefits are outside of 600 why limit yourself when investing that much money?

Why would anyone in their right mind build a custom 308?? ;)

Swan · Post by **Swan** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:34 pm

AR15barrels wrote:
Why do you shoot one then?

Ya James! WTF ?

Lol

Post by **AR15barrels** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:52 pm

DirtRacer151 wrote:Why would anyone in their right mind build a custom 308?? ;)

Barrel life.
Steven is at about 800 or 900 rounds in 3 months.

ReligiousShooter · Post by **ReligiousShooter** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:00 pm

brian01tj wrote:Heres an idea....trade rifles with Ryan or any other of the top guys and see who shoots a better KYL ;)

I bet ya I can do better using their rifle than if I can with my factory rifle.

DirtRacer151 · Post by **DirtRacer151** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:03 pm

ReligiousShooter wrote: I bet ya I can do better using their rifle than if I can with my factory rifle.

apples to oranges

Has nothing to do with caliber...

My SPS 308 was a tack driver. There was even a few times i shot it much better then i even could my Surgeon.

brian01tj · Post by **brian01tj** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:09 pm

ReligiousShooter wrote: I bet ya I can do better using their rifle than if I can with my factory rifle.

So then you're saying there should be a "Top Factory" rifle category then?

hochung · Post by **hochung** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:10 pm

AR15barrels wrote:Steven is at about 800 or 900 rounds in 3 months.

DirtRacer151 wrote:Steven has a custom tube on a 308 that Randall built. It shoots every bit as accurate as my 260 from what i've seen. So inside of 600yds there really isn't much benefit in a laser.

Damn, everybody picking on Steven.

GforceJunkie · Post by **GforceJunkie** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:15 pm

I like top .308 because I shoot .308 and its something for me to aspire to. Perhaps a "Top Stock" class for those shooting stock Remington orSavage barrels/actions would be more appropriate for our matches.

DirtRacer151 · Post by **DirtRacer151** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:20 pm

GforceJunkie wrote:I like top .308 because I shoot .308 and its something for me to aspire to. Perhaps a "Top Stock" class for those shooting stock Remington orSavage barrels/actions would be more appropriate for our matches.

I can agree to this

brian01tj · Post by **brian01tj** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:24 pm

GforceJunkie wrote:I like top .308 because I shoot .308 and its something for me to aspire to. Perhaps a "Top Stock" class for those shooting stock Remington orSavage barrels/actions would be more appropriate for our matches.

How about aspiring to change calibers, I am lol. Too many factors with a factory category....I have a "factory 700"...with a brake, DBM, HS stock, Timney trigger. Is mine still "factory"?

johnlee · Post by **johnlee** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:27 pm

Would my rifle fit into the stock/factory class?:

It's a stocker. No exaggeration. The trigger is the factory trigger.

The bipod is factory:

The action and barrel are factory. Even the sling is a factory sling. Even the iron sights are factory:

Even the SCOPE is factory:

brian01tj · Post by **brian01tj** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:30 pm

Nope sorry John. He only said Remington or Savage rifles ;)

GforceJunkie · Post by **GforceJunkie** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:47 pm

While Johns rigs would defintaly push the limits of the intentions of a "stock" class, I would have to say it is a stock rifle. The point would be to seperate all the customs from the stockers...sorta like "street stock" vs "modified" classes in auto racing. "Motor" is stock (barrel, chamber, action) but other mods can be made (stock, DBM, brake, etc.) Perhaps it should be "Top Jalopy" for us shooting sub $1200 base rifles. :lol:

buffybuster · Post by **buffybuster** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:09 am

GforceJunkie wrote:I like top .308 because I shoot .308 and its something for me to aspire to. Perhaps a "Top Stock" class for those shooting stock Remington orSavage barrels/actions would be more appropriate for our matches.

We had this same conversation on Calguns a year and a half ago.........

I think it's this one.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/show ... p?t=246330" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DirtRacer151 · Post by **DirtRacer151** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:45 am

ColdSteel wrote:
Maybe one day, you'll learn how to balance and start riding a dirtbike.

Any day you would like to race pussy... bring it on! I'll even beat you on the Quad if you wanna keep talking shit homo

Juice5610 · Post by **Juice5610** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:55 am

DirtRacer151 wrote:
Any day you would like to race pussy... bring it on! I'll even beat you on the Quad if you wanna keep talking shit homo

Challenge has been placed. Make sure someone video tapes it and then post it on here.

DirtRacer151 · Post by **DirtRacer151** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:56 am

Juice5610 wrote: Challenge has been placed. Make sure someone video tapes it and then post it on here.

There won't be a video... Kurtis won't even show up!

Kurtis.. do your legs even touch the ground on your bike?

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:04 am

DirtRacer151 wrote:
There won't be a video... Kurtis won't even show up!

Kurtis.. do your legs even touch the ground on your bike?

Of course the do!

On his 80.

hanchung · Post by **hanchung** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:12 am

so... i would really like to see a saturday match "custom" or stock, .308 or .260. I don't care if there is a Top .308 or not because I just want to enter a saturday match.

btw, i shoot a stock .308 too.

MichaelV · Post by **MichaelV** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:19 am

johnlee wrote:I just noticed something.

James shoots a .260.

Seth shoots a .260.

Mike shoots a .260.

Charlie shoots a 6.5x47 if I recall.

All of the guys in favor of abandoning Top 308 on the ground that .308 isn't a disadvantage don't shoot .308. They all shoot 6.5s.

Is this mere coincidence? Perhaps. Perhaps not.

John, I think you have a point-- (and it's actually the same point that I was making when I said Top 308 doesn't make sense in our matches now)- - if everyone wants our matches to be practice for the big matches, then there is no need for Top 308 because we all need to be shooting 6.5 or smaller. Though the reality is there are different types of rifles, shooters and skill levels. Obviously your AI is not as accurate as any of the top shooters rifles, nor is your scope as good... but if we are going to amp up the competition we don't care. We are not going to 'baby' anyone.

I actually am fine with having a Top 308 category and would vote to keep it. I feel our matches should not just be only about practice for the big matches (since very few of us actually go to them) but should be true to the spirit of tactical rifles, which .308 is the mainstay. Our matches should be a balance of the fundamentals of military tactical precision work well as doing some of the avant garde 'side prone' silliness. Which makes it enjoyable for everyone to shoot.

Since James and Randall put on the matches- it's really up to them on what turns these matches take. I personally think they've done a wonderful job at giving us a well rounded shooting experience and don't want to see that change. Yeah if the poolballs get smaller, that's totally cool but I would hate to see our matches become the gaming, side prone, .243-.260 shoot off and leave our true .308 military style shooters out.

Post by **AR15barrels** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:26 am

ColdSteel wrote:Maybe one day, you'll learn how to balance and start riding a dirtbike.

You should know better than to challenge a flatbiller to anything related to dirt-based motorsports!

Post by **AR15barrels** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:28 am

MichaelV wrote:Since James and Randall put on the matches- it's really up to them on what turns these matches take. I personally think they've done a wonderful job at giving us a well rounded shooting experience and don't want to see that change. Yeah if the poolballs get smaller, that's totally cool but I would hate to see our matches become the gaming, side prone, .243-.260 shoot off and leave our true .308 military style shooters out.

At the request of this thread, there will be NO 100yd targets and no prep time at the march match.
All stages will start from port arms.