The original instruction was to have the left and right targets at one yardage in the spotter's field of view. It is obvious that there is still a tendency to focus on one target or the other even though they are both in the same field of view. This was the flaw that started the issue. It is my fault in that respect. As I said lessons learned. We will not fall into that pitfall again.

Past that we are just having a difference of attitudes on the line, and some of the joking is perceived as disrespect by others. Maybe we can all work on being a little more serious on the line during the course of fire as it is the only prep that some of you get before a big match, and we can also work on not having any hard feelings towards each other when feathers get ruffled. That's about it.

I will bring enough for everyone next month.

Everyone just relax.

The issue of finding spotters at monthly matches is my worst nemesis. It seems as soon as i delegate a few people to spot that as soon as it gets to be their turn to shoot its like a ghost town looking for anyone else to replace that person.

I get it guys. Nobody wants to focus through a spotting scope because they'd rather be prepping for the next stage. Consider the next time you win a match and didnt volunteer once. I bet you feel like king dick looking at 2nd and 3rd place cause you kicked their asses. Good for you....now fuck off cause I'll bet 2nd and 3rd were busy between stages contributing to the match as a whole while you were only looking out for yourself.

We ALL need to be helping as much as possible. I dont give a fuck if you wanna go meditate before you shoot your fucking stage. Theres other guys sacrificing their meditation time so that THEY can spot for YOU!!!

You guys want better calls at matches from spotters...
#1 bring a spotting scope
#2 use the spotting scope
#3 let others use the spotting scope when its your turn to shoot

I see nothing wrong with how Rich had his spotters working. Im a perfect world there would be a spotter on each target for each shooter but due to some selfish fucks sometimes we're stuck with having to have 1 spotter watch multiple targets at the same time in his FOV.

You don't like it? Fix it yourself or stop bitching.

**this post is not directed at any individuals and is more of a broad statement based off things we observe at PBR matches**

Why does this shit piss me off?? Just one time I'd love to shoot some monthlies with no distractions. While i don't see that happening.. if more people stepped up to help keep things rolling during stages it makes it easier on everyone!!

AR15barrels wrote:
That's a little more challenging if you have to differentiate on who hit the target first.

I think there our spotters have varying degrees of experience spotting steel so mistakes can be made. It's compounded by tiny bullets with little splash and two targets to keep track of.

We all need to attend a spotting class- myself included.

Regardless of their experience. Yelling at them is uncalled for and unprofessional. PERIOD. I had to get the RO involved to calm the situation down.

gau17 wrote:Regardless of their experience. Yelling at them is uncalled for and unprofessional. PERIOD. I had to get the RO involved to calm the situation down.

WTF happened after I left?
Everyone has their tit in a ringer. About what I have not a clue.
Standard Match rules have always been the spotter has the final call.

gau17 wrote:Regardless of their experience. Yelling at them is uncalled for and unprofessional. PERIOD. I had to get the RO involved to calm the situation down.

Solo
It was not long ago that you were yelling at Randall because he made a mistake while you were shooting, he gave you a rerun of the stage , where was your professionalism then ha, or unprofessionalsm does not apply to you only to others. Second I was not yelling I was speaking load because every one had earmuffs on .
Fine , soon or later similar things can happen to any one of you , you all can see how well you will keep your cool . Fortunately I won't be there to witness that because I just quit .
Now you can have all the fun at monthly picnics with out me .
End of the story.

Wow, a lot of antagonism popped up here, seems like comments and sore feelings are being amped up rather than calmed down.

RE: spotting two targets at once in a scope or binos, my feeling having spotted quite a bit in the match is that the targets being spotted at once needed to be closer together. Our eyes really want to focus on one thing, and when too far apart (15 to 20 feet or so) they end up on opposite sides of the field of view in the scope, so when detecting movement in one target you focus on that and exclude the other. When closer together, maybe 4 feet max apart, then we can easily see both at once.

Also, we have a blind spot and it so happens the some of the targets were about the right distance apart that when looking at the left target the right one would disappear. Binos helps in this regard a lot since both eyes are used however the magnification tends to be a bit low, need around 15 to 20X instead of 8 or 10X.

Common Ray. It's a monthly. We'll be ok next month.

I'm not saying it ok for me to do it. IT IS NOT. It is unprofessional and uncalled for. Yes I have done it and I'm sorry for doing it. All you new guys. DO NOT YELL AT THE SPOTTERS AND RO's. It's a good way to get kick out of a match!

thegiff wrote:
RE: spotting two targets at once in a scope or binos, my feeling having spotted quite a bit in the match is that the targets being spotted at once needed to be closer together. Our eyes really want to focus on one thing, and when too far apart (15 to 20 feet or so) they end up on opposite sides of the field of view in the scope, so when detecting movement in one target you focus on that and exclude the other. When closer together, maybe 4 feet max apart, then we can easily see both at once.
TV

I agree Aaron. The thing is we usually just try to do the best we can with the amount of spotters we have available and people willing to spot.

I'm thinking maybe for PBR matches we need to devise a spotter rotation plan. We can force everyone to spot in broken intervals. Maybe something like you have 2 shooters after your turn to report for spotting for 3 shooters. So shooter 3 will be required to be there to spot for shooter 6 and will be required to stay until shooter 9 is done. Its just an idea we can talk about and tweak as necessary. We wont be looking for spotters anymore!!

Btw my above comment is not aimed at anyone individually. Its just irritating as hell when people think between stages is nothing but social time. We all have a equal obligation to help the match where ever possible. None of the MDs get paid for this so everyone needs to be helping.

DirtRacer151 wrote: I'm thinking maybe for PBR matches we need to devise a spotter rotation plan.

Not hard to do at all. Spotter could spot for the shooter two ahead: 1st shooter spots for 3rd, etc.and the second to last spots for 1st shooter, last shooter spots for the 2nd shooter. If you need more spotters, then you go farther up the line. No one is rushed and everyone spots.

As important we need to have one spotter on one target at a time or have more reactive targets. The ipsc flappers are easy because they move when hit. The round plates on a stick don't move so much so they're much tougher to call when you're watching two on opposite sides of the FOV.

Most important, everyone needs to chill out and remember the monthlies are for FUN.

buffybuster wrote: As important we need to have one spotter on one target at a time or have more reactive targets. The ipsc flappers are easy because they move when hit. The round plates on a stick don't move so much so they're much tougher to call when you're watching two on opposite sides of the FOV.

Most important, everyone needs to chill out and remember the monthlies are for FUN.

Henry, you hit the nail on the head exactly. That is why there will be upgrades to the targets and target mounting that will make sure that we get the reaction out of the steel that will be easy to call.

Monthlies for me are fun for me no matter what, but I also do take them as good serious practice of having to perform under the buzzer! We all need to improve our skills! NorCal is hell bent to better themselves this season in the PRS where the finale is going to be in SoCal. I know some of you have the salt to make it. Let's all kick it up a notch!

I had a great time (as usual), and although there were disagreements about a few shots I'm not at all contesting the result, Samson won, and I never for a minute thought he was gaming my call. In fact if Jeff hadn't called it an impact it never would have been brought up in the first place. It can really be hard to tell how serious people are in a few lines of text on a forum, even with smilies and "Jk" it's still hard to tell the actual extent of the butt hurt in someone's post. With the exception of some of the newer shooters I haven't noticed a huge lack of willing spotters, but what I have noticed is that once a spotter sits down behind a scope everyone else on that stage just seems to assume they'll spot the whole stage. Inevitably that person's turn comes and we're scrambling to find a spotter. I think another problem is the lack of enough good spotting scopes, I try to bring my Kowa every match (but I do forget here and there) I know there is someone here with a Vortex razor, and the club Kowa, but I have a hard time with the eye relief on that one. I don't think anything less than 15-20x is really acceptable for spotting, there was a little 8x Vortex on one stage that I looked through it and could barely make out the steel in the bushes.

If we're going to have 20+ shooters in two squads shooting 2 at a time on 2-4 pairs of steel we need at least 2 and preferably 3 quality 20x spotting scopes per squad. My recommendation is the last three shooters in a rotation spot the first three and then the first three spot the middle 3-4 and they spot the last three.

Here is what looks like a pretty damn good Celestron spotter for $169...
http://www.amazon.com/Celestron-52250-U ... ords=konus" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Shit, I'm tempted to buy one just to try, I love my Kowa, but it's overkill for our matches. If you haven't bit the bullet on a spotting scope and tripod, maybe now's the time.

evo wrote:I know there is someone here with a Vortex razor, and the club Kowa, but I have a hard time with the eye relief on that one.

That's not the club's Kowa.
That's my Kowa.
I just leave it in our target lockup so it's always there.
Brad also leaves his Leupold spotter there for the same reason.

I have a spotter I can bring to the party. I just need to get a tripod.

Balloons.....no one told me there would be balloons.

......and I want to thank EVERYONE...because I learned a little (or a lot) from each of you.

LoneWolf wrote:I have a spotter I can bring to the party. I just need to get a tripod.

Most people buy a lightweight tripod with a 3 way pan/tilt photo head, but this absolutely the wrong combo, ideally you want a medium weight tripod with either a compact geared head or a video fluid head. The weight helps with vibration and wind and the geared/fluid head is more precise and much easier to transition between targets.

Not sure about your budget but I'd get one of these two heads...

http://www.amazon.com/Manfrotto-410-Jun ... 410+geared" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.amazon.com/Manfrotto-700RC2- ... rds=700RC2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and one of these tripods...

http://www.amazon.com/Induro-Tripod-AT- ... 71&sr=1-65" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This Oben is a copy of the Manfrotto I use, not sure of the quality but the price is great...
http://www.amazon.com/Oben-AC-2341-3-Se ... tto+tripod" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Think we can add this to next month's COF?

Ha probably not. I don't want to loose my brass

LoneWolf wrote:

Think we can add this to next month's COF?

WOAH!!!!!!!

Who and where was this???? That's awesome!!!!!

I wonder what the angle correction on that is?

I would loose more than my brass..... Dumb question, but would there be any angle correction?

Someone posted it on FB as "Sniper level ....Expert" lol

evo wrote:I wonder what the angle correction on that is?

-3.1415 then divide by zero add potato pull out a round and just drop it onto your target.

Lol...

Burt Gummer for President 2016

Steven P. Rogers, RN CEN
KK6OTA