**monthly matches**

MichaelV · Post by **MichaelV** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:39 pm

I'd love a top .260 category! Can we do that??

Post by **oni** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:40 pm

What exactly are we trying to accomplish with our matches?

Training for big matches

Are they supposed to be training for new guys to compete in bigger matches?

Yes and no - We don't have offical training days outside of our new shooter clinics so the only time we actually get practice in match conditions is at the match. The training is not necissarily geard toward the new guys but to guys that have completed the the new shooter clinics and are interested in competing.

Are they supposed to be what we think new guys will like?

No they should reflect the skills needed to be competitive in big matches. You aren't always going to like the stages you have to shoot.

Are they supposed to challenge even the seasoned shooters?

Yes. The COF should challenge everyone.

Are they supposed to be a place where we can test and evaluate new COFs that nobody has ever shot before?

Ideally we could test one or 2 new COF's in a match. Some matches may not have anything new it all depends on the match director.

DirtRacer151 · Post by **DirtRacer151** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:41 pm

oni wrote:What exactly are we trying to accomplish with our matches?

Training for big matches

Are they supposed to be training for new guys to compete in bigger matches?

Yes and no - We don't have offical training days outside of our new shooter clinics so the only time we actually get practice in match conditions is at the match. The training is not necissarily geard toward the new guys but to guys that have completed the the new shooter clinics and are interested in competing.

Are they supposed to be what we think new guys will like?

No they should reflect the skills needed to be competitive in big matches. You aren't always going to like the stages you have to shoot.

Are they supposed to challenge even the seasoned shooters?

Yes. The COF should challenge everyone.

Are they supposed to be a place where we can test and evaluate new COFs that nobody has ever shot before?

Ideally we could test one or 2 new COF's in a match. Some matches may not have anything new it all depends on the match director.

Perfect Keith!

That's my thinking too

MichaelV · Post by **MichaelV** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:43 pm

DirtRacer151 wrote:
Perfect Keith!
That's my thinking too

Keith got a 100 percent?? Shit. I can I change my answers?

johnlee · Post by **johnlee** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:53 pm

MichaelV wrote:I hate to say but "Top 308" doesn't make much sense in our matches. The Top 308 was invented because 6 and 6.5mm bullets have such an advantage at 600+ yards. Inside of that my GAP 308 matches my RR .260.

I thought Top 308 would play out differently than it has. I thought all of you guys would be shooting .223s in the Angeles matches like Jeff Butler and Randall. I'm surprised more of you guys don't given the usual 400-yard max (and only a few shots at that) and the vast majority of the shots being at 100 yards.

I thought a bunch of people were going to switch to .223 and then the courses of fire gradually would get longer and longer as the matches went on to weed out the .223s. But it never happened.

DirtRacer151 · Post by **DirtRacer151** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:55 pm

johnlee wrote:
I thought Top 308 would play out differently than it has. I thought all of you guys would be shooting .223s in the Angeles matches like Jeff Butler and Randall. I'm surprised more of you guys don't given the usual 400-yard max (and only a few shots at that) and the vast majority of the shots being at 100 yards.

I thought a bunch of people were going to switch to .223 and then the courses of fire gradually would get longer and longer as the matches went on to weed out the .223s. But it never happened.

I'm building a 223. It's going to happen and until we begin to shoot out to 600yds more regularly i'll probably do just fine with it.

Juice5610 · Post by **Juice5610** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:09 pm

DirtRacer151 wrote:
yep...i agree

+1

MichaelV · Post by **MichaelV** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:37 pm

What if we did different "Top" catagories each month?

Like "TOP SPEED" - the fastest 5 shots on 5 steel targets.

"TOP LONG SHOT" Most accurate long shot on paper.

"TOP SLING" Best slung shot(s)

"TOP PRONE" Best prone shot(s)

"TOP GROUP" Best group.

"TOP MONEY SHOT" Uh you know...

Chevroletkid88 · Post by **Chevroletkid88** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:41 pm

I agree with ryan about more innovation. If you need any help building anything such as barricades or anything to shoot over or off of then let me know. I have access to a shitload of tools and a good amount of know how on building things.

I would like to see the stages get a little more challenging. The harder you make it the more we learn.

I don't care at all how long we stay there as long as i get home for work on monday.

I will help out in any way needed in order to make the matches work out.

khw9mm · Post by **khw9mm** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:45 pm

MichaelV wrote:What if we did different "Top" catagories each month?

Like "TOP SPEED" - the fastest 5 shots on 5 steel targets.

"TOP LONG SHOT" Most accurate long shot on paper.

"TOP SLING" Best slung shot(s)

"TOP PRONE" Best prone shot(s)

"TOP GROUP" Best group.

"TOP MONEY SHOT" Uh you know...

Too many "tops" dude! LOL. Just a top ass master is enough! :lol:

Seriously though, I think I shot a total of 3 matches with you guys and I sucked at all of them. It was challenging but I think if I were to shoot more often at CAPRC matches, the stages might become too complacent and boring. I'd agree that we need more challenging stages even though it's gonna make me suck even more!! For me, the whole point of shooting them is to get better and possibly compete in the bigger matches some time down the line.

Teletiger7 · Post by **Teletiger7** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:45 pm

Its hard to do certain things at ASR because of the nature of having to shoot from the line while others patrons are shooting there also.
If it were somehow possible, I think it would be great to have:
More movement where the shooter has to move from one shooting position to another, shooting from unsual improvised positions and adapting to various types of support.
Get the shooters heart rate up.Transitions to/from pistol.
Moving target/moving shooter.
I understand some of the above may not be possible at ASR but something to keep in mind if ever possible.

khw9mm · Post by **khw9mm** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:48 pm

What's the feasibility of holding matches at the spot??

Juice5610 · Post by **Juice5610** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:20 pm

khw9mm wrote:What's the feasibility of holding matches at the spot??

DING DING DING

Post by **oni** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:30 pm

Juice5610 wrote: DING DING DING

Limited to 10 or so ppl on the line at once?
Public Land issues with running a *match*?
How many people are going to be willing to make the drive?

maddesign · Post by **maddesign** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:30 pm

how about joining forces with another club like BBRC. Their range with a CPRC COF, seems like it would be a good time.

Gary's matches on their own are pretty cool, you've got precision 100 yds, unknown distance, 600 yd movers, 1000 yd steel, obstacles, and some run and gun stuff with pistol and rifle.
And don't forget about Mark's at WEGC, hopefully he'll be up and running soon with the range.

I'm surprised not more of the CPRC members participate in these matches.

Post by **oni** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:33 pm

maddesign wrote:how about joining forces with another club like BBRC. Their range with a CPRC COF, seems like it would be a good time.

Gary's matches on their own are pretty cool, you've got precision 100 yds, unknown distance, 600 yd movers, 1000 yd steel, obstacles, and some run and gun stuff with pistol and rifle.
And don't forget about Mark's at WEGC, hopefully he'll be up and running soon with the range.

I'm surprised not more of the CPRC members participate in these matches.

Back to the whole willing to drive issue.

DirtRacer151 · Post by **DirtRacer151** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:34 pm

Juice5610 wrote: DING DING DING

It aint happening on a normal basis. Too difficult to get people to attend.

We are all talking about a desert trip soon though and it sounds like we have some interest. What do you guys think about sometime in April making a overnight trip to Barstow or Tehachapi and doing some awesome camping, grilling, drinking, shooting, and some kind of a fun match with some run and gun and some night stuff? Don't think of it as an official match but rather a coordinated shoot with some match style fun. There would be of course random blasting true desert style

Mind you this would be a public effort. Something we would all be responsible in setting up and running.

Teletiger7 · Post by **Teletiger7** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:40 pm

DirtRacer151 wrote:
It aint happening on a normal basis. Too difficult to get people to attend.

We are all talking about a desert trip soon though and it sounds like we have some interest. What do you guys think about sometime in April making a overnight trip to Barstow or Tehachapi and doing some awesome camping, grilling, drinking, shooting, and some kind of a fun match with some run and gun and some night stuff? Don't think of it as an official match but rather a coordinated shoot with some match style fun. There would be of course random blasting true desert style

Mind you this would be a public effort. Something we would all be responsible in setting up and running.

Sounds like a good time. I'm definitely interested. Maybe there will be jackrabbits out there too. Saw some last time I was out that way.

Juice5610 · Post by **Juice5610** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:49 pm

maddesign wrote:how about joining forces with another club like BBRC. Their range with a CPRC COF, seems like it would be a good time.

Gary's matches on their own are pretty cool, you've got precision 100 yds, unknown distance, 600 yd movers, 1000 yd steel, obstacles, and some run and gun stuff with pistol and rifle.
And don't forget about Mark's at WEGC, hopefully he'll be up and running soon with the range.

I'm surprised not more of the CPRC members participate in these matches.

I have been looking into them and will start going out to them shortly

Connor P Price · Post by **Connor P Price** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:16 pm

The spot was awesome when we were just a bunch of guys shooting together and having fun funding targets and such through donations to the cause etc. Things have changed a bit though and we are now a legitimate corporation. Its not feasible at this time to put on a match on government land, it requires permits and such.

DirtRacer151 wrote:It aint happening on a normal basis. Too difficult to get people to attend.

We are all talking about a desert trip soon though and it sounds like we have some interest. What do you guys think about sometime in April making a overnight trip to Barstow or Tehachapi and doing some awesome camping, grilling, drinking, shooting, and some kind of a fun match with some run and gun and some night stuff? Don't think of it as an official match but rather a coordinated shoot with some match style fun. There would be of course random blasting true desert style

Mind you this would be a public effort. Something we would all be responsible in setting up and running.

This is a great idea, I had a great time last time we went out.

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:34 pm

Randall and I have discussed using Desert Marksman for ranges and all the things discussed here are available there. Steel at 1k and everything in between including up close, pistol, 3 gun, etc. The Board at Desert Marksman has preliminarily approved this pending a written proposal. Hint, Randall.

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:42 pm

I'd also like to see some of the matches shot on Saturday. This is probably the single largest thing keeping me from membership as well.

DirtRacer151 · Post by **DirtRacer151** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:44 pm

Chris wrote:I'd also like to see some of the matches shot on Saturday. This is probably the single largest thing keeping me from membership as well.

agreed %100 Chris!!

brian01tj · Post by **brian01tj** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:49 pm

1. Harder
2. Anytime. Hell James and I spend more time driving to and from than we do shooting/helping
3. Obviously I would

From what Ive read so far Ive only read that creating a more challenging and creative match is in order. Im tired of the typical grab bag of COF's that have been used lately (minus February). We almost need to start a thread dedicated to people throwing out COF ideas that they have had, I think we would be surprised as to the ideas some members may have. Get creative people.

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:04 pm

1. Id like to see them harder. I want to be over, not under prepared for big matches.
2. 1ish
3. Happy to help, if I can.

johnlee · Post by **johnlee** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:23 pm

Chris wrote:I'd also like to see some of the matches shot on Saturday. This is probably the single largest thing keeping me from membership as well.

Do you guys know the story of the missionary and runner Eric Liddell? Liddell was a member of the 1924 British Olympic Team. His inspirational story was told in the movie Chariots of Fire.

Liddell finds out the heat for his best event (the 100 meters) will be on Sunday:

The British Crown tried to force him to run on Sunday but he refused:

Liddell runs the 400 meters instead:

I'm always inspired by Eric Liddell. The French wouldn't move their event to another day, but perhaps we as a club could move a few matches to Saturday so that Chris could participate. It would be sweet too if Chris won a Saturday match. It would be like Eric Liddell.

Mesa Defense · Post by **Mesa Defense** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:41 pm

Sideways prone is always nice...

DirtRacer151 wrote:Lately there has been talk of people wanting to see different things at the matches. I want to hear what you guys have to say about this. I am in favor if making things more difficult/fun. There is a few problems with this though. To turn up the heat requires more work. We are already stretching our resources as is. This would mean more help before and after matches to help set up and take down and would also mean you guys wont be going home at noon either. I personally am willing to put in the effort and stay later if needs be.

We go pretty easy on you guys with our matches. I would like to see more technical stuff vs the 100yd paper precision BS. I know some of you new guys are thinking that your having a hard time as it is. Just because we make a COF harder or more technical doesn't mean it challenges only you more. I want to start challenging Ryan even! If its harder for you I can assure its harder for everyone. If you shoot a perfect score on a stage because it was easy and it makes you feel good about yourself then we're only cheating you! Chances are everyone thought it was easy and shot perfect scores. Its all in your head. It always cracks me up how shitty I do on offhand shooting yet when I see everyone elses scores mine doesn't look so bad anymore. Its because even though I struggled through the stage and felt bad about my performance it was an equal struggle for everyone else and it makes us all better shooters in the end.

We make it a goal to be done by 12 every month. Sometimes we go over and sometimes we finish early. This goal really limits the time we are allowed to do things. More time equals better stages and more shooting but we don't want to hurt our turn outs because you guys told the wife would meet them at the cafe for brunch if you got to go shooting.

So what did you guys think about the man vs man stage last month? Would you like to see more barricades or more posistional? Or do you love shooting pool balls at 100yds every month? Who's up for a desert style run and gun match this ear? (Be prepared to get your ass whooped and get dirty if you answer yes )

I want to hear your guys opinions but before you answer anything else I want 3 answers-

Do you want it-
a) harder
b) the same
c) easier

What time do you want to leave by?
a) 11
b) 12
C) 1
d) 2
e) I don't care if it means more shooting!!

Are you willing to help out?
a) yes
b) no

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:08 pm

johnlee wrote:It would be sweet too if Chris won a Saturday match. It would be like Eric Liddell.

Dude, that's a lot of pressure. :lol:

I know there are a few others who don't shoot Sundays that would like to shoot some matches on Saturday as well.

johnlee · Post by **johnlee** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:10 pm

". . . he who honors Me, I will honor . . ."

StraightShooter · Post by **StraightShooter** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:20 pm

To be honest, if people want to be challenged, they need to shoot different matches. You can show up at angeles every time and do pretty well but that doesnt tell you much about your shooting skill. All it says is you have good short range dope for angeles. Drastically cut the par times on the stages at angeles and it will become more challenging. It should be difficult to get all your rounds off in the time limit.

StraightShooter · Post by **StraightShooter** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:24 pm

Oh, and stop handing out courses of fire before matches.

robert hode · Post by **robert hode** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:28 pm

Training for the big matches? The ones that fill up in less than 10 seconds? The ones that even top shooters have trouble getting into?

Maybe our local matches should be the goal. Even if you are good enough for "the big matches" what are the odds of getting in?

Take the best stages from "the big matches" and rotate them into our local one. Same skill set on a smaller scale.
Look at ranges like Desert Marksman (yes I know its far) where we might be able to reserve a day and set our steel anywhere out to 640 yards with only our guys shooting, and having cease fires when we want them.

Chris, Calling Chris

DirtRacer151 · Post by **DirtRacer151** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:57 pm

StraightShooter wrote:Oh, and stop handing out courses of fire before matches.

i agree with this too. Maybe just a sheet with round counts and minimal info and thats it..

Juice5610 · Post by **Juice5610** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:59 pm

StraightShooter wrote:Oh, and stop handing out courses of fire before matches.

WTF!? So who do I have to talk to in order to get a COF before the match

Post by **oni** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:00 pm

I want to make a point.

The "Club" has only officially existed for 2 months.
The "Club" has only recently started purchasing more and more steel targets.

The fact is there has been a lack of props and targets to make interesting and more challanging stages.

Other clubs have been around longer then we have and we can't forget that. Its going to take commitment from members and the board to make things work. We can't expect it to happen overnight.

With new steal to incorporate into matches the match directors (board members) can mix things up.

Examples:
January's match had times exposures - this was an awesome and challanging stage
February's Match had the man on man stage - very very awesome

Rather than having a bitch fest about the matches being to easy or to hard its more helpful to contribute specifics examples of what is to easy.

I have yet to see that from anyone.

James - I pose the question above to you. What is to easy about the matches?
Ryan - Why do you tell people you wouldn't drive 2 hours to our match? Ask yourself what you would change and then make it happen.

You two are both board members and can do more to improve the matches then any regular members comments here.

DirtRacer151 · Post by **DirtRacer151** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:08 pm

oni wrote:

James - I pose the question above to you. What is to easy about the matches?
Ryan - Why do you tell people you wouldn't drive 2 hours to our match? Ask yourself what you would change and then make it happen.

You two are both board members and can do more to improve the matches then any regular members comments here.

I would love to improve the matches. It's always fun trying to introduce new things though and getting shot down because "everyone will complain" or "we don't have time". Hence the reason i started this thread asking people if they are willing to step it up and not cry and if they mind staying an hour or 2 more to allow us more time to set up better stages. I am one of the one's who is constantly always pushing to try new things and introducing new ideas. Why do you never see them applied? Someone always finds something wrong with them.

Our matches are too easy because they are very repetitive. I would love to take the effects of wind and air density into consideration before making my shots. I don't think ive even turned on my Kestrel since the last time we shot at the spot. This means i would love to shoot beyond 300yds some times...

Juice5610 · Post by **Juice5610** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:18 pm

DirtRacer151 wrote:
Our matches are too easy because they are very repetitive. I would love to take the effects of wind and air density into consideration before making my shots. I don't think ive even turned on my Kestrel since the last time we shot at the spot. This means i would love to shoot beyond 300yds some times...

+1 Only time my windage has ever been turned was for the side prone stage and the AZ match....

Also Keith here you go lol

Post by **Gnzrme** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:24 pm

Ok, so I will shoot myself in the foot and say, lets step up the difficulty, but maybe not on a level with TPRC. I like having the COF in hand to figure out dope and plan the stage. I also like the 100 yard targets because they are easy to see...(I am having problems with vision) I am willing to stay longer and I can help out more if needed.

As far as Desert Marksman, we should be able to figure out something, but it may be difficult to get the entire rifle line. If I recall correctly, there is something scheduled every w/e of the month.....(I will have to check the newsletter)

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:36 pm

Gnzrme wrote: If I recall correctly, there is something scheduled every w/e of the month.....(I will have to check the newsletter)

Not on the rifle line. It is open on the day of pistol matches. The EXCOM is going to be concerned about eating up the whole day with a match. I have assured them and will emphasize this when the formal proposal is done, this is not an issue.

Post by **Gnzrme** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:51 pm

Maybe we could give a share of our proceeds to the club as range fee.... All things that need to be discussed by the board and the presentation made to the excom of Desert Marksman....

Oh Chris, can regular members attend the excom meeting but not participate...?

Swan · Post by **Swan** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:18 pm

oni wrote:
Rather than having a bitch fest about the matches being to easy or to hard its more helpful to contribute specifics examples of what is to easy.

I have yet to see that from anyone.

James - I pose the question above to you. What is to easy about the matches?
Ryan - Why do you tell people you wouldn't drive 2 hours to our match? Ask yourself what you would change and then make it happen.

I don't run the matches, just shoot them. I have a lot of respect for you guys putting them on and not shooting. It is a lot of work. But since oni asked:

I'll be first. It pains me to admit but standard pool balls @ 100yds are too easy :o , at least strong side with a bag. Paper hostages at 200yds is too easy, we used to shoot nearly equivalent size at 300 meters in Vegas matches w/wind, a LOT of hostage hits. KYL @ 100yds is too easy because no one bothers with the ultra tiny dots. Also, while maybe one of my favorite/most fun stages, the "In n Out" holdover stage on steel can be easy, but making all of them hostage targets and shorter times would drastically change things for everyone.

I don't think I am alone in saying I typically look forward to paper stages in general. They seem to be the ones where I can make up a large difference and compensate for earlier phuk ups. Altering these stages, somehow, to more risk/reward type stages can drastically alter the outcome.

edit: Cheap wooden built barricades would be cool to see, and wishful thinking, a mover or two, perhaps? Also, I'm more than happy to donate some steel for matches as well if more is wanted (tiny man, 3", 5", 6", 8" steel circles, KYL rack 5 targets, full size IPSC Torso)

Connor P Price · Post by **Connor P Price** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:37 am

All, please keep in mind we are a young club and there is a lot still in the works. A lot of work has been put into getting things going but still there is more that needs to be done. We have more steel already ordered. We're working on getting dedicated storage at Angeles. We've discussed building new props, but getting those props built or adding much more steel isn't plausible until we have a place at the range to store it all.

For those interested in having club targets past 400 yards, fear not, that's being discussed as well but there are issues that need to be worked out. If you're not familiar with the Eagles Nest, there is a range to the left of the rifle line which fires across the range left to right so when we go out to 400 yards to bring in steel we have to coordinate a line brake with them to do so. If we have steel at 400, 500 and 600 that takes time to pull stakes out of the ground, get them all in trucks and get back. That's a long time to be holding up all of the rifle line as well as eagles nest, so keep in mind that Angeles is sharing the range with us and we need to be gracious guests. We're working on the proper solution to that problem as well.

However, as far as targets past the 600 yard berm, a large fire break would need to be cut and maintained and so on and so forth which takes additional money and significant man hours.

Everyone take a moment and think about our matches about 6 months ago. Probably half of our attendees were brand new shooters without any match experience at all, if we started out with hard COF's things would not have gone well because we'd have people that wouldn't want to come back. Now that we have actual membership, more refined training, and more people shooting we have fewer new guys who would be put out by a difficult match. The club is growing, things are moving in the right direction but they do take time. New stuff will come, new targets, new stages, new props, etc.

If everyone wants to raise their membership dues by about 400 dollars each annually we could put together a meager salary for me, I'll quit my job and stuff would get done lickity split. :lol:

Until then, I assure you I'm not the only one with very sparse free time to work a lot of this stuff out.

roypark · Post by **roypark** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:01 am

johnlee wrote:
Do you guys know the story of the missionary and runner Eric Liddell? Liddell was a member of the 1924 British Olympic Team. His inspirational story was told in the movie Chariots of Fire.

Liddell finds out the heat for his best event (the 100 meters) will be on Sunday:

The British Crown tried to force him to run on Sunday but he refused:

Liddell runs the 400 meters instead:

I'm always inspired by Eric Liddell. The French wouldn't move their event to another day, but perhaps we as a club could move a few matches to Saturday so that Chris could participate. It would be sweet too if Chris won a Saturday match. It would be like Eric Liddell.

This makes me feel guilty. I went out of my way to find a church that had a 5PM service so I could come out to the matches. Although I pay for the match, I still consider it recreation.

MichaelV · Post by **MichaelV** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:43 am

oni wrote: January's match had times exposures - this was an awesome and challanging stage
February's Match had the man on man stage - very very awesome

+1

Ronald Walter · Post by **Ronald Walter** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:34 am

Harder more challenging COF with movement and limited time (Enough of 100yd paper punching! Maybe 1 COF at 100yds for positional shooting)
Finish around 1pm
Yes I would help setup sometimes

When is your next match at Angeles?
Can we drive our trucks up range to carry steel targets to the 600yd line in the morning before the line goes hot ?
Can we drive up range at 1pm or when we finish to pick up our steel ?

Thanks

264Charlie · Post by **264Charlie** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:47 pm

Do you want it-
a) harder
b) the same
c) easier

What time do you want to leave by?
a) 11
b) 12
C) 1
d) 2
e) I don't care if it means more shooting!!

Are you willing to help out?
a) yes
b) no

OK the way I look at a monthly match is it's training for everyone. It's about getting ready for the big matches. That said the number one issue with a monthly match is the Coldbore shots. The new guys are never 100% sure of their zero and the experienced guys might not have had time to get to the range after cleaning ect. I have seen, on more than a few occasions, someone have a "bad" match to not having proper zero. Additionally, they never really get to see what happens in the first few shots out of the gun from CB. I think we could increase the "fun" and make the stages harder by allowing the group to zero.

Other issues I see with our match is we provide too much prep time and shoot inside of 400 way too much. On steel stages shooter should get zero prep and should stay off the guns. We are spoiled with dialing parallax and finding targets ahead of time. Other matches don't run this way. If you have an issue, mags not loaded, can't find a target guess what you zeroed the stage. As for shooting outside of 400, at ASR winds are light and mainly in-line with the shooter. This is doing us all a disfavor, we should be shooting 1.25 MOA targets to counteract this. Yes the hit count might be lower but it would be lower for everyone.

We also need to crack down on ND/AD or people arguing with spotters or line officers. Really in big matches it's not accepted and you will lose points if you try.

I don't see the need for Top308 at all. We don't do Top10x Scope, Top223 or TopAR. We all have choices of what to shoot and inside of 600 it does not really matter anyway. The difference between a 308 and 260 in full value wind is only 6". The guys that are truly as a disadvantage is anyone shooting a cheap scope. If anything let make a TopCheap Scope dog-tag.

Lastly, the matches should not cater to the lowest common shooter. They should be challenging for the best shooter and the rest of us need to catchup. I don't see too many new guys stepping up to run the line, attend RO classes, shoot big events, and donate steel. The matches are put on by good shooters and should be shot by them too.

hanchung · Post by **hanchung** » Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:23 pm

johnlee wrote:
Do you guys know the story of the missionary and runner Eric Liddell? Liddell was a member of the 1924 British Olympic Team. His inspirational story was told in the movie Chariots of Fire.

Liddell finds out the heat for his best event (the 100 meters) will be on Sunday:

The British Crown tried to force him to run on Sunday but he refused:

Liddell runs the 400 meters instead:

I'm always inspired by Eric Liddell. The French wouldn't move their event to another day, but perhaps we as a club could move a few matches to Saturday so that Chris could participate. It would be sweet too if Chris won a Saturday match. It would be like Eric Liddell.

I'm a new member and would love to enter the matches but same story here too... very difficult to do Sundays. Would be awesome if there was one Saturday match(or more if possible). I look forward to meeting you all at the range or hopefully at the matches some day.

Seth8541 · Post by **Seth8541** » Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:29 pm

johnlee wrote:
Do you guys know the story of the missionary and runner Eric Liddell? Liddell was a member of the 1924 British Olympic Team. His inspirational story was told in the movie Chariots of Fire.

Liddell finds out the heat for his best event (the 100 meters) will be on Sunday:

The British Crown tried to force him to run on Sunday but he refused:

Liddell runs the 400 meters instead:

I'm always inspired by Eric Liddell. The French wouldn't move their event to another day, but perhaps we as a club could move a few matches to Saturday so that Chris could participate. It would be sweet too if Chris won a Saturday match. It would be like Eric Liddell.

This is also the reason I do not attend the monthly matches. Some Saturday matches would be great and much appreciated.

264Charlie · Post by **264Charlie** » Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:57 pm

Seth8541 wrote:
This is also the reason I do not attend the monthly matches. Some Saturday matches would be great and much appreciated.

Seth, no one whats to shoot against you.

Juice5610 · Post by **Juice5610** » Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:03 pm

264Charlie wrote:

Seth, no one whats to shoot against you.

Agreed lol