AAR PBR WEGC 3-15-15

bcrich · Post by **bcrich** » Sun Mar 15, 2015 4:34 pm

Today's match had a a good turnout of 22 shooters with a few new guys join in & learn a little more about precision rifle shooting. Glad you guys made that hardest step in getting started (just showing up) after that it gets easier.

We ran a little late getting the mover set up & all those new awesome reactive targets the boys from SCPRT brought for you to shoot! Thank all you guys who pitched in for the mover and steel, every little bit counts and is greatly appreciated!

Weather was nice in the morning as we started up on the hill with a breeze but not enough to throw you off too far. We shot a few stages up top then moved to the 500m pad for a few more followed by moving over to bay 6 for the final 3 stages. Match was over by about 1:30 (a little later than we prefer ) thanks to all the guys who helped break down everything afterwards your help makes it a lot easier!! Gracias muchachos!!

Today's shooters standings....
1st place James J 398 pts
2nd place Evin 384 pts
3rd place Aaron 342 pts
4. Rich C 333
5. Solo 306
6. Oscar 257
7. Joe V 253
7. Phil 253
9. Larry 246 takes top 308
10. Joe H 219
11. Brett 208 takes top pistolero medal for his outstanding pistol skills!!
12. Darren 193
13. Myself Rich G 166
14. Mike 147 new to PBR
15. Lou 111
16. Larry F 93
17. Chris 86 new to PBR
18. Helio 61
19. Jeff 48
20. Rick N 32 new to PBR
21. Christian 26 new to PBR
22. Robert 15 new to PBR
Big thank you to James as usual for bringing you another fun day of shooting & challenging c.o.f. & my tocayo Rich C for printing them out to pass out to the shooters.

Today's cof

Stage 1 (Random holdovers)** 2 shooters at a time**
8 Rounds
Shooters begin prone behind rifle, bolts back.
236yd pepper poppers, 307yd skinny sammys , 393yd IPSC flappers, & 514yd 8" plates
10 pts per hit (CB shot is worth 20pts)
No prep time
90 second shoot time
On beep shooters will engage targets in the following order with 1 shot each - Delta, Bravo, Charlie, Alpha, then repeat. Shooters will advance to next target if they miss shot. Once stage begins shooters may not touch their elevation knobs.
Evin, James & Oscar all scored 7 hits each for the highest scores for this stage.. Outstanding guys!!

Stage 2 (hodgies on the run) ** 2 shooters at a time**
8 rounds
Shooters begin prone behind rifle, bolts back.
380yd mover
10pts per hit (a hit on the mover base is a stage DQ)
No prep time
60 second shoot time
On beep, shooters will engage their target on the mover with 6 rounds
Evin & Rich C both scored 7 hits for the highest score for the mover stage. Awesome shooting gents !!

Stage 3 (KYL)
6 rounds
Shooters begin prone behind rifle, bolts back.
395yd KYL rack
Pts - 5, 10, 10, 20, 20, 25
No prep time
60 seconds shoot time
On beep shooter will engage the KYL rack with 1 round each from largest to smallest. Shooters may stop at any time. A miss = a 0 for the stage
Aaron went for it scoring 4 hits on the Kyl rack for the highest score. That was some awesome shooting Aaron!!

#### MOVE TO LOWER PAD ###

Stage 4 (The spin cycle)
8 rounds
Starting port arms with bolt open and mag in
No prep time
60 seconds Shoot time
220 Yard MGM Spinner, 320 Yard Hostage flapper
On beep shooter will drop to prone position and engage MGM Spinner target at 220 yards until successfully spun around. RO will announce to shooter clear to move on. At that point shooter may engage hostage flapper target at 320 yards with remaining rounds. If shooter hits hostage on first round, spin bonus is lost.
Spinner Impacts 0 Points
Spinning Successfully 30 Bonus Points
Flapper Impacts 10 Points Each
First Hostage Hit = Loss of Spin Bonus!
Any Following Hostage Hits -10 Points
James once again shows us his skills scoring 70 pts for the highest score!! Nicely done bro

Stage 5 (Shoot - N- move)
10 rounds
Starting port arms behind roof top
10" target @ 320yds
100 second shoot time
On beep shooter will engage the target with 2 rounds from each firing position in this order - Roof top, roof middle, barrel tube, ladder, bench
Solo was the master on this stage scoring 70 pts ... Wouldn't have it any other way for the captain of the APRT ;)

##### Move to bay 6 ####

Stage 6 (pistol mover)
20rds
On beep shooter will pick up handgun and engage mover with 10rds, drop mag and reload, engage stationary targets with 2 rounds each.
(1pts per hit)
Brett made this stage look easy scoring 18 total 9 on the stationary targets & 9 on the mover! Earning the top Pistolero medal ( I'll mail it out to you Homie )

Stage 7 (PBR close range)
10 rounds
5 circle target
50yds/15yds
Start standing behind rifle with mag in and bolt back.
50yd- On beep shooters will drop down and engage each circle with 2 rounds. 2 from strong side, 2 from weak side, then shooters must run back and cross the line between each of the next 2 shots.
15yd- On beep shooters will engage remaining 2 circles with 2 rounds from strong side and 2 rounds from weak side. (last 2 circles all shots must be completely inside the circle and not touching a line to count for score)
Evin, James & Solo all scored 60 pts showing their CQB skills!

Stage 8 (Candy crush)
Up to 10 rounds
60yds
50 sec
Starting hot behind rifle shooters will engage their numbered candies ....largest to smallest candy, must crush the candy in order to advance to next one.
Joe H, Larry E, Joe V,Evin,James,Rich C & Solo all cleaned the crush stage all the way down to the tic tac. Great job crushers!

bcrich · Post by **bcrich** » Sun Mar 15, 2015 4:35 pm

Today's top finishers & 2 camera shy guys Aaron & Brett

Helio getting better every match! Keep it up pops.

Quick snap at the shoot n move stage

Packing them in like sardines... What you don't see is the dust storm from brakes obscuring your targets at 60 yds.

Joe shooting from the lil ladder.

Phil scoring them hits.

APRT captain displaying his skills!

SAP Rich C on the lil ladder.

Brett the camera shy guy... Mr "Top Pistolero" ;)

Thank you guys for all your help spotting!! This makes everything a lot easier.

James at the pistol stage.

Oscar doing a systems check prior to letting um fly.

Aaron doing what he does best... Out shooting his compadres

evo · Post by **evo** » Sun Mar 15, 2015 5:26 pm

Great match guys! Thanks to Rich, James and Joe for pulling out all the stops and making some fun challenging stages.

Here is the score sheet... [Philadelphiaattachment=0]ImageUploadedByTapatalk1426469194.386438.jpg[/attachment]

Post by **autoessentials** » Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:26 pm

Completely fun match, but something looks missing in my KYL score box......

Looks like the scorekeepers missed something.

Got three hits on that one. I believe that is 25 points by my math.

I bet there were no Asians doing the calculations! Doh!

buffybuster · Post by **buffybuster** » Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:45 pm

Looks like fun. Sorry I missed it.

Downrange67 · Post by **Downrange67** » Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:52 pm

Looks like I missed a good one. See some of you on Friday

shawscar17 · Post by **shawscar17** » Sun Mar 15, 2015 7:54 pm

Huge thanks to James, Joe V, Rich C, and Rich G. Had a blast a great course of fire and well organized. Thanks to the other shooters for a fun and safe match. Lots of help on the line with spotting, set up, and breaking down. Always a great time! Looking forward to see some of you out in AZ.

gau17 · Post by **gau17** » Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:12 pm

Yes I can verify Rich had 3 hits on the KYL. I remember we wanted him to go for the 4th one but only loaded his mag with 3 rounds

khw9mm · Post by **khw9mm** » Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:04 pm

Been missing too many fun matches! Hope to make it next month. Good luck in AZ next week guys!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Post by **thegiff** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:31 am

Darn, looks like I owe Rich a medal. I gave James a hit on the mover but he must not have been feeling super generous cuz he didn't give one back to me... Anyway good shooting James! Evin asked me what my hold was, I was using 2.0 mils, which Evin did really great with.

521 rounds through my 6 creed barrel now, looks like I need to adjust the seating depth, it's a 1 moa shooter at the moment. Velocity around 3170 or so. I rebedded it Saturday night, pulled the scope to clamp the action upside down. Zero was slightly off at the beginning of the match, on the KYL, I was holding the top right corner on the third and fourth plates.

gau17 · Post by **gau17** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:02 am

Aaron - sorry about points that was my fault. I was scoring that stage.

my 6x47's thoat moved .010 in 500 rounds. 6mm is definately not like my 6.5 Creedmoor. You have to constantly keep track of movement of the throat.

DirtRacer151 · Post by **DirtRacer151** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:20 am

.010?!?!?! Are you fucking serious?

Mine moved probably close to .020-.025 by then.

gau17 · Post by **gau17** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:27 am

Let me double check my notes tonight when I get home. I know I'm at 2.101 right now.

Mudlol · Post by **Mudlol** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:11 am

Thanks guys I really enjoyed yesterday match. The mover stage was awesome!

evo · Post by **evo** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:50 am

Yea, my throat moved .008" in the last 160 or so rounds. The Hybrids seem to like .005"-.010" off the lands in my gun.

buffybuster · Post by **buffybuster** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:16 pm

DirtRacer151 wrote:.010?!?!?! Are you fucking serious?

Mine moved probably close to .020-.025 by then.

I'm seeing about 0.004"/100rds... Depressing

gau17 · Post by **gau17** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:28 pm

buffybuster wrote: I'm seeing about 0.004"/100rds... Depressing

The only good thing for me is I have plenty of room to grow. My COL is around 2.69-2.70

Post by **autoessentials** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:12 pm

thegiff wrote:Darn, looks like I owe Rich a medal.

No worries at all Aaron! Unless it is made out of real copper, then I will take it!
I would probably have a fortune in copper from 3rd place dog tags if that were so!
Next time if I can squeeze a few more points than you without you having scope issues then it counts!

Post by **thegiff** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:49 pm

Ok, I'll put it in the peanut butter jar with the others then...

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I rebedded it because the zero keeps shifting, .3up X .2 over, then the other way including at the Brawl, except for the caprc match where it was .2 left and .1 high. When I rebedded it, I found some crud between the action and bedding which might explain it all, just the same I feel better rebedding it.

postal · Post by **postal** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:20 pm

autoessentials wrote:Completely fun match, but something looks missing in my KYL score box......

Looks like the scorekeepers missed something.

Got three hits on that one. I believe that is 25 points by my math.

I bet there were no Asians doing the calculations! Doh!

Bring spotting scope and abicus.. check.

LoneWolf · Post by **LoneWolf** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:26 pm

thegiff wrote:Ok, I'll put it in the peanut butter jar with the others then...

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I rebedded it because the zero keeps shifting, .3up X .2 over, then the other way including at the Brawl, except for the caprc match where it was .2 left and .1 high. When I rebedded it, I found some crud between the action and bedding which might explain it all, just the same I feel better rebedding it.

This is why I switched to a Chassis! Now if I could only get consistent ejection with spent cases! Was losing more points to time than I was misses this match! Once it's all tuned in I'll start giving you guys some competition.

bcrich · Post by **bcrich** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:54 pm

That's right Phil!!! Get um next time

Post by **thegiff** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:08 pm

Yup, next stock is on order, manners with mini chassis. Best of both to me, comfy stock and hopefully no bedding required.

evo · Post by **evo** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:53 pm

You still need to bed the tang, I'm ordering a regular stock, the Mini-cassis. Is not really worth the $.

LoneWolf · Post by **LoneWolf** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:21 pm

So playing with the action tonight, I think the main issue is that I can run the bolt faster than it can eject the brass. I might actually have to slow down in order to run this action...

Post by **autoessentials** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:50 pm

You are definitely stepping it up there Phil. You had some good solid shots all day.

Maybe you should stop by a gunsmith and have him look at that ejection issue.

Hit up Randall, and he can make you a while you wait appointment to get it sorted out.

buffybuster · Post by **buffybuster** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:07 pm

LoneWolf wrote:So playing with the action tonight, I think the main issue is that I can run the bolt faster than it can eject the brass. I might actually have to slow down in order to run this action...

What action?
What extractor?

LoneWolf · Post by **LoneWolf** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:14 pm

Shilen DGR. Uses a Savage style bolt head.

buffybuster · Post by **buffybuster** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:32 pm

LoneWolf wrote:Shilen DGR. Uses a Savage style bolt head.

Savage type actions have always had rather weak ejection. Have you considered putting a large detent ball under the sliding plate extractor? Also what does the bottom of your windage knob look like? Is it pinged with lots of rash from cases hitting it?

LoneWolf · Post by **LoneWolf** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:38 pm

Shilen uses a larger detent ball and I switched out the ejector spring for a heavier one already. I know it's limitations as I've built 4 Savages before building on the Shilen action. I've been in contact with Shilen hoping to work out some little kinks.

I see a Mausingfield M5 in the future.... I went with this platform because I prefer to build and barrel my own rifle without the additional costs of a Smith and machining.

evo · Post by **evo** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:18 pm

I'm seriously considering an M5 in 6 or 6.5x47L myself.

postal · Post by **postal** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:40 pm

LoneWolf wrote:Shilen DGR. Uses a Savage style bolt head.

...and there's your problem..... shooting 6.5 creed?
My savage was fine with 308- going to 6.5 creed causes nothing but problems....

Banging my head against the wall after the change....

I've given up and cant wait to change to a 700 platform because of it.

It's mostly solved by drilling the extractor off center to get more hook time on the brass, but you really feel a HUGE resistance getting the extractor to snap over the rim now. It's just suckage all the way around.... and I give up. Throw in the towel..

LoneWolf · Post by **LoneWolf** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:41 pm

evo wrote:I'm seriously considering an M5 in 6 or 6.5x47L myself.

If you suck it up and go with a barrel nut I can swap the barrels for you. Been doing all my Savages and the Shilen for the last 2 years. Saves $150-$200 unless you got a good deal with a Smith.

evo · Post by **evo** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:57 pm

I'd like to learn to do it myself actually. All I should need is a go gauge, barrel vice and tourqe wrench correct?

LoneWolf · Post by **LoneWolf** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:10 pm

I use an action wrench in my set up. Don't forget the barrel nut wrench as well. But a barrel vice would work just as well. I just ended up buying the action wrench because that's what a guy in a youtube video used. But seriously 15min tops to swap barrels.

Think it was like $80 worth of tools or something like that.

LoneWolf · Post by **LoneWolf** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:23 pm

postal wrote:

...and there's your problem..... shooting 6.5 creed?
My savage was fine with 308- going to 6.5 creed causes nothing but problems....

Banging my head against the wall after the change....

I've given up and cant wait to change to a 700 platform because of it.

It's mostly solved by drilling the extractor off center to get more hook time on the brass, but you really feel a HUGE resistance getting the extractor to snap over the rim now. It's just suckage all the way around.... and I give up. Throw in the towel..

ya I've hit up Shilen pretty hard the last two weeks about this flaw. It was sent up to the man in charge today to petition for a better designed bolt head. Even if he decides to make changes I'm sure it would be months or more down the road.

Will keep you guys posted though if I hear some serious news come back.

Post by **thegiff** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:54 pm

For my 6 creed, the throat moved about .050" or so in 517 rounds fired. I don't have any gauges, I placed a bullet in a fired case, cycled carefully, marked the bullet with a razor. Then seated without changing the die setting. Marked again, measured the difference at a best estimate of about .080", and subtracted the .030" jump I had.

bcrich · Post by **bcrich** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:17 am

Aaron I can make you a modified case gage if you give me a spent case to drill & tap, I have the Hornady tool to measure it if you want to be sure.

gau17 · Post by **gau17** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:40 am

Aaron how hot/fast are you running your 6mm?

Post by **thegiff** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:57 am

3150 or so. I looked up how the Hornady gauge is made and works, I'll make my own shortly. Seems to be a useful tool. We've got lots of ss tubing, aluminum, and other odds and ends so I can make my own.

LoneWolf · Post by **LoneWolf** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:33 pm

I've been running the 115 DTACs in my 243. I don't even know how much jump I have. I should probably figure it out, but they shoot straight. I'm at like 400-450rds right now and pushing them at 2950 with 40grs of H100V Running a 7 twist at 27"

Post by **AR15barrels** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:09 pm

LoneWolf wrote:If you suck it up and go with a barrel nut I can swap the barrels for you. Been doing all my Savages and the Shilen for the last 2 years. Saves $150-$200 unless you got a good deal with a Smith.

The only problem with the barrel-nut system is that you are getting a factory-chambered barrel.
That usually means done in a CNC lathe, which almost always means loosly fitted pilots and threads and that the bores are not indicated prior to chambering.
They have to make the threads small enough to thread in to the tightest receiver threads.

There goes all the benefits of having a gunsmith-fit barrel job with a perfectly dialed-in chamber job and barrel threads that fit the receiver so tight that they are lapped-in like how benchrest guns are built.

LoneWolf · Post by **LoneWolf** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:13 pm

Still shoots 1/4" 5 shot groups!

Post by **AR15barrels** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:14 pm

LoneWolf wrote:Still shoots 1/4" 5 shot groups!

Bummer.
1/8" is better.

Short Action Precision · Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:36 pm

AR15barrels wrote:
Bummer.
1/8" is better.

Really?!?!

bcrich · Post by **bcrich** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:46 pm

Nobody's gun here in this entire forum shoots 1/8" groups! Haaa! Is there? That's gonna be the next medal.... Tightest 5 shot group!

evo · Post by **evo** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:51 pm

AR15barrels wrote:
Bummer.
1/8" is better.

I can barely shoot 1/3" when the planets align, and I'm hung over (yea, it helps).

LoneWolf · Post by **LoneWolf** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:00 pm

This is the group I'm most proud of 1.438" at 415yds. 33* and snowing with a 2-3mph wind up in the Palomar Mountains. Never shot much better than a couple of .3's and every now and then a .2 at 100. I hate 100yard groups. Some shooters are skilled at group shooting, most are just lucky!