WEGC-PBR Match Scores & Pics 7/18/10

Spaniard · Post by **Spaniard** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:20 pm

We had a several shooters for July's Match and as the saying goes anything can happen. Snappy logged 103* Degrees with his Kestral in the sun, but it was a dry heat so it didn't seem too bad.

We had 10 stages with close to a 60 round count for the day. We added at last month's match the "Hot Bore" shot at the end of the match and that seems to be a great last stage. I thought the match went smoothly and the shooters had a good time.

Our Cold Bore shot was at 465 yards and all shooters made the hit except for one shooter.

Todays Top Shooter was Rich Gonzalez with a total score of 716 points. Very good job Rich. No more newbie for you. Get a mag system Rich and your times will go down and scores go up. Your doing great.

The steel again was alot of fun and we were finished with the 500 yard line by 0930 and then moved to the 200 yard line and the shade. As always we mixed steel in with paper and shot holdover, dial up, back and forth, front to back and back to front. Barricades and all positions were included so we had a pretty good mix of stages before the break.

Order of finish for today.

1) Rich Gonzalez-716 Points
2) Brandon McGaffey-685 Points
3) Scott Cochran-557 Points
4) Brad Bolves-465 Points
5) Henry Song-386 Points
6) Keith Nelson-363 Points
7) Albert Baragas-98 Points

By the way the CAPRC is having their monthly match next month, second Sunday of the month at Angeles Shooting Range so pencil that in since we will not be having a match in August.

Teletiger7 · Post by **Teletiger7** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:41 pm

Looks like you all had a good time. Nice pics.

DirtRacer151 · Post by **DirtRacer151** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:54 pm

Damn Rich.. good job man!!

Hopefully the weather will be better in Sept and ill see you guys out there.

bcrich · Post by **bcrich** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:12 pm

DirtRacer151 wrote:Damn Rich.. good job man!!

Hopefully the weather will be better in Sept and ill see you guys out there.

Thanks James, I didn't think I did that good Mark probably messed up on the math part in my favore ha! ha! That picture of me shooting seated (off my boots) looks funny but it worked. Thanks to Randall for his brake job and trigger adjustment

Post by **Gnzrme** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:39 pm

Excellent job guys...Mark I really like the yellow/orange color of the targets. Can find them quickly...Where is Ben, Randall, Ryan, James, Charlie, Joe V & Joe H., or Kurtis?...

DirtRacer151 · Post by **DirtRacer151** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:46 pm

Gnzrme wrote:Excellent job guys...Mark I really like the yellow/orange color of the targets. Can find them quickly...Where is Ben, Randall, Ryan, James, Charlie, Joe V & Joe H., or Kurtis?...

I stayed in the AC all day today. I'm not much of a summertime person.

I'll probably take it easy on matches until the heat dies off. Need to save money too since i have a few guns i'd like to finish before things cool down again as well.

Post by **AR15barrels** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:03 pm

Gnzrme wrote:Where is Ben, Randall, Ryan, James, Charlie, Joe V & Joe H., or Kurtis?...

I spent the day working in my shop.
Gotta makes the money to buy more boolits and barrels...

Teletiger7 · Post by **Teletiger7** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:23 pm

Gnzrme wrote:Excellent job guys...Mark I really like the yellow/orange color of the targets. Can find them quickly...Where is Ben, Randall, Ryan, James, Charlie, Joe V & Joe H., or Kurtis?...

I was working at the County :x

Post by **AR15barrels** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:17 pm

This is what NOT to do... Lifting your face off the gun betweeen shots:

Spaniard wrote:

Hunters shoot like that... ;)

StraightShooter · Post by **StraightShooter** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:37 am

AR15barrels wrote:This is what NOT to do... Lifting your face off the gun betweeen shots:

Hunters shoot like that... ;)

Blah blah blah blah........ i cleaned the steel on that stage so it doesnt matter anyway.

rksimple · Post by **rksimple** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:25 am

StraightShooter wrote:

Blah blah blah blah........ i cleaned the steel on that stage so it doesnt matter anyway.

Was it a multiple steel/distance stage? Because then, its better to lift your head to find targets and line up quickly.

vu308 · Post by **vu308** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:34 am

A lot of places teaches you, find it with your eyes, kill it with your scope.

Francis does the exact same thing for the exact same reason Ryan mentioned. It's faster to find it with both eyes and point your rifle to it sometimes. It's all personal preference anyways. + Brandon cleaned the stage so it's hard to argue with results.

However, that is an interested sitting position a few pics up.

Spaniard · Post by **Spaniard** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:29 am

Thanks James, I didn't think I did that good Mark probably messed up on the math part in my favore ha! ha! That picture of me shooting seated (off my boots) looks funny but it worked. Thanks to Randall for his brake job and trigger adjustment

Hey Rich, I checked the scores twice you and Brandon both did well, you just made a few more shots. There were a few stages where shooters didn't get past the first KYL and that hurts at the end of the day. Your accuracy was great yesterday, it happens don't knock it. Next match the wheels may come off and you'll be asking what happened. :o

The shooting off the boots doesn't work for me, but if it works for you go with it. At the end of the day it worked for someone else too...

Mark

vu308 · Post by **vu308** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:41 am

Oh I understand that people can adapt and over come. It's like using a sand sock for rear rest bud. Adapting with the hardware you have in your ruck.

However, in the spirits of certain COFs, sitting sometimes doesnt mean just on your ass. Some MDs like to see one sling up and shoot a tradition rifleman's position.

Fine line between gaming and adapting. Ask Jiko.

StraightShooter · Post by **StraightShooter** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:20 am

rksimple wrote:
Was it a multiple steel/distance stage? Because then, its better to lift your head to find targets and line up quickly.

Yes, it was a stage where you transitioned from paper to 4 different steel targets so a total of 7 transitions back and forth. It was a large enough change in angle that you had to adjust your body each time you made a transition.

Congrats to Rich by the way, fine show of excellent shooting.

Post by **AR15barrels** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:32 am

vu308 wrote:It's like using a sand sock for rear rest bud.

Fine line between gaming and adapting. Ask Jiko.

wildcard · Post by **wildcard** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:17 am

I've thought about the bipod on the foot deal.. decided against it since the bipod was deployed AND USED. Leans too far into the "gaming" realm. No bipod and I'd think it was ok.

vu308 · Post by **vu308** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:18 am

shooter65 · Post by **shooter65** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:08 pm

Henry...where is your red sweatshirt?

wildcard · Post by **wildcard** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:09 pm

Sounds like we need one of these:

shooter65 · Post by **shooter65** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:10 pm

Damn...a Gay bash.

Connor P Price · Post by **Connor P Price** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:10 pm

bcrich · Post by **bcrich** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:38 pm

Is that dude keeping his trigger finger warm? ha! ha!

buffybuster · Post by **buffybuster** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:03 pm

shooter65 wrote:Henry...where is your red sweatshirt?

Being 105deg on the line, I thought I'd go without it..... probably explains my 5th place......

shooter65 · Post by **shooter65** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:16 pm

And your recoil pad??

buffybuster wrote:
Being 105deg on the line, I thought I'd go without it..... probably explains my 5th place......

Spaniard · Post by **Spaniard** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:59 am

The good thing about gaming, it only happens at West End Gun Club and no where else....

With gay men pics engaged too on the Forum.

And I thought it was just about rifles and matches, what was I thinking... ;)

wildcard · Post by **wildcard** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:27 am

It was a group hug! Who's in?!

I've seen gaming all over the place in varying degrees. The way I figure it is: Win with some fucking integrity!
It's just a matter of what's acceptable to the shooter and within the rules.

vu308 · Post by **vu308** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:44 am

Mark,

No one here said gaming only happens at WEGC. It happens every where, however most MDs don't praise it by calling it adapting and over coming. There was a lil gaming at TBRC 2010, 95% of the match was without it. We'll remedy the other 5% next year.

That picture posted was taken at SCPRC 2009 during a stage that was allowed to be game by first squad throwing their bi-pods on their packs. After that, it was a free for all. I remember because I asked if that shit was legal or not, you indicated yes, and there you have it.

DirtRacer151 · Post by **DirtRacer151** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:15 am

vu308 wrote:Mark,

No one here said gaming only happens at WEGC. It happens every where, however most MDs don't praise it by calling it adapting and over coming. There was a lil gaming at TBRC 2010, 95% of the match was without it. We'll remedy the other 5% next year.

That picture posted was taken at SCPRC 2009 during a stage that was allowed to be game by first squad throwing their bi-pods on their packs. After that, it was a free for all. I remember because I asked if that shit was legal or not, you indicated yes, and there you have it.

Why do I have the feeling your referring to us?

rksimple · Post by **rksimple** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:29 am

vu308 wrote:
That picture posted was taken at SCPRC 2009 during a stage that was allowed to be game by first squad throwing their bi-pods on their packs. After that, it was a free for all. I remember because I asked if that shit was legal or not, you indicated yes, and there you have it.

Thats the one thing that I sort of enjoy about matches like SCPRC, TPRC, ASC, etc. They allow use of ingenuity in overcoming something. Thats not to say I'm displeased with TBRC, LV matches, etc. in any way, however. Its like the side prone thing. I think its pretty dumb, but give me a port to shoot through and it makes it a necessity. Or I have to invent a way around it. Doing it for the hell of it, off the top of a barricade, is dumb. Same with bags, and seated, kneeling, etc. I loved ASC because it was all practical use of equipment. If the grass was too tall to see the target, you build up your bag, bipod, whatever to make the most stable platform possible.

I understand the desire for "standards" in matches...traditional seated, kneeling, etc. But its nice to also throw in some areas where ingenuity (and perhaps flexibility) will pay off.

vu308 · Post by **vu308** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:37 am

DR...if you feel that way, it must be a sign of guilt.

Ryan, I understand what you are saying bud, however you and I both know there is a fine line between the gaming and adapting.

You and I both saw what flexibility can be turned into with Jiko's famous ass up/face down move he is so good at.

rksimple · Post by **rksimple** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:43 am

vu308 wrote:DR...if you feel that way, it must be a sign of guilt.

Ryan, I understand what you are saying bud, however you and I both know there is a fine line between the gaming and adapting.

You and I both saw what flexibility can be turned into with Jiko's famous ass up/face down move he is so good at.

Agreed. Thats why a mix of both is good. I tend to see things from more of a practical standpoint as I'm always out killing stuff with my rifles. Maybe others would see it as gaming. I may be guilty as charged.

I guess I should have also noted that there is a lack of "adapt, overcome, etc." in SCPRC matches because of the lack of the use of a rear bag...a vital piece of kit. So once again, it comes down to different strokes for different folks. And MD's have what they like to do and I can't fault them one bit. I like the way things are. All of these matches employ different methods and we are left practicing for everything that could possibly come up. In the end, itmakes us better shooters.

DirtRacer151 · Post by **DirtRacer151** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:43 am

rksimple wrote:
Thats the one thing that I sort of enjoy about matches like SCPRC, TPRC, ASC, etc. They allow use of ingenuity in overcoming something. Thats not to say I'm displeased with TBRC, LV matches, etc. in any way, however. Its like the side prone thing. I think its pretty dumb, but give me a port to shoot through and it makes it a necessity. Or I have to invent a way around it. Doing it for the hell of it, off the top of a barricade, is dumb. Same with bags, and seated, kneeling, etc. I loved ASC because it was all practical use of equipment. If the grass was too tall to see the target, you build up your bag, bipod, whatever to make the most stable platform possible.

I understand the desire for "standards" in matches...traditional seated, kneeling, etc. But its nice to also throw in some areas where ingenuity (and perhaps flexibility) will pay off.

^^^ this!!

If your going to make me shoot sitting then give me a reason, if I have to shoot off hand then give me a reason as well. Same applies to side prone... what would we do if someone built a port at a 45deg angle and made that a stage?

I guess I would just like to see the practical side of these matches be a little more.... practical. A real sniper or "precision shooter" doesn't get a stage breifing. He gets a scenario and an objective and must make the best of it using the tools in his pack and using every possible advantage he can find using his surroundings. I doubt after he hits his target that you'll hear the rag head he just shot complaining that he was using a sand sock and is guilty of gaming. If two snipers are presented the same scenario and one survives his mission solely because he adapted to make the best of his surrounds then I say props to him.

I will agree with Ryan that the diversity we must practice for just makes us better shooters in the end..... win/win

Yes, I do feel a tad guilty Vu... I cleaned your sitting stage

and I had fun doing it

vu308 · Post by **vu308** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:56 am

It ok DR, no need for guilt. And since you cleaned it, it was too easy, so we'll fix that.

You guys operated within the rules. There were some other things I saw that needed to be fixed. We are always striving to make things better up here.

Your comparison of matches to real world two way ranges has no merit though.

Personally I define our sport/discipline as "long range precision shooting and competition with simulated field conditions in a controlled environment." In any controlled environment there has to be standards and rules set.

I guess it is hard to explain unless you guys put on a big show with 50K on the table. Once you do that and get all the hate mail for guys gaming and this and that. You'll understand why things are done the way they are.

rksimple · Post by **rksimple** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:11 am

vu308 wrote:
I guess it is hard to explain unless you guys put on a big show with 50K on the table. Once you do that and get all the hate mail for guys gaming and this and that. You'll understand why things are done the way they are.

We're working on an "ASC west." Practical field riflery. No such thing as gaming there.

I agree with the hate mail and complaints part. Its almost as if more gaming takes place the stricter the rules are. When everyone is allowed to use any equipment they have (packs, shooting sticks, monopods, etc. like in AZ) as long as its within the rules, it seems there's less whining taking place. Maybe not...

Vu-I'll send you a pm or give you a call. I've been reading up on positional rules and such. May not have to discriminate against shorter shooters afterall...

DirtRacer151 · Post by **DirtRacer151** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:22 am

vu308 wrote:It ok DR, no need for guilt. And since you cleaned it, it was too easy, so we'll fix that.

You guys operated within the rules. There were some other things I saw that needed to be fixed. We are always striving to make things better up here.

Your comparison of matches to real world two way ranges has no merit though.

Personally I define our sport/discipline as "long range precision shooting and competition with simulated field conditions in a controlled environment." In any controlled environment there has to be standards and rules set.

I guess it is hard to explain unless you guys put on a big show with 50K on the table. Once you do that and get all the hate mail for guys gaming and this and that. You'll understand why things are done the way they are.

I honestly had a blast at TBRC and can't complain about a thing. I can understand about the hate mail though. We get whiners even at our little monthly club matches and it drives me nuts to see guys take this so serious.

I expected that you would change the rules next year which is fine. I have just under a year to practice.

Post by **AR15barrels** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:34 am

vu308 wrote:you and I both know there is a fine line between the gaming and adapting.

It's all just a matter of viewpoint.
When marines do it, it's "adapt, improvise and overcome".
When anyone else does it, it's gaming.

It does not matter what you call it as long as the rules are applied equally to all.

Post by **AR15barrels** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:37 am

DirtRacer151 wrote:what would we do if someone built a port at a 45deg angle and made that a stage?

I got a jigsaw and plywood.
I guess we will find out next month.
Thanks for the new stage idea...

Would you like some holdovers with that?

DirtRacer151 · Post by **DirtRacer151** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:40 am

AR15barrels wrote:
I got a jigsaw and plywood.
I guess we will find out next month.
Thanks for the new stage idea...

Would you like some holdovers with that?

I'll keep my mouth shut..

Didn't you want to shoot my gun again next month?

Post by **AR15barrels** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:43 am

DirtRacer151 wrote: I'll keep my mouth shut..

Didn't you want to shoot my gun again next month?

I have my own gun, and a decent idea what's going to happen in 45 degree angle seated...

DirtRacer151 · Post by **DirtRacer151** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:53 am

AR15barrels wrote:
I have my own gun, and a decent idea what's going to happen in 45 degree angle seated...

Oh so now its going to be seated side prone? LOL

I know you have your own gun.. I was looking for a way out of shooting next month

vu308 · Post by **vu308** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:03 am

DR, no worries man. No harm, no foul.

People will cry no matter what, you guys did a great job at TBRC.

Ryan, give me a holla whenevers.

Let us know when you get ASC west going.

DirtRacer151 · Post by **DirtRacer151** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:40 am

AR15barrels wrote:
what's going to happen in 45 degree angle..

That sir is what I call a half-n-half ;)

DirtRacer151 · Post by **DirtRacer151** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:42 am

vu308 wrote:DR, no worries man. No harm, no foul.

People will cry no matter what, you guys did a great job at TBRC.

Ryan, give me a holla whenevers.

Let us know when you get ASC west going.

Since were on the complaint subject I'd like to make one against Mrs. Lola D. That bitch did me wrong and after she was done with me she stole 10pcs of my brass.

JasonB · Post by **JasonB** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:48 pm

It is just going to depend on what the stage is supposed to be... a test of a fundamental/traditional shooting position, a run what you brung how ever you want to, or something in between.

The intent of the stage should be made clear and if the RO/MD deems whatever you are doing to be foul ... fix it or move on with your 0.

264Charlie · Post by **264Charlie** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:12 pm

AR15barrels wrote:
I got a jigsaw and plywood.
I guess we will find out next month.
Thanks for the new stage idea...

Would you like some holdovers with that?

New item in pack...

Post by **Gnzrme** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:28 pm

264Charlie wrote:
New item in pack...

Would modifying the stage or barricade be considered gamming? :lol: