CaPRC 1/9/11 Match AAR

Swan · Post by **Swan** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:37 am

Thanks to James, Ryan K, Joe V, Jose F and Nathan for help running the show. Fun as always.

para38super · Post by **para38super** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:39 am

AR15barrels wrote:
Those are the same rings, but I believe mine came in millet packaging.
I have seen many companies that sell the exact same ones and they are almost always right around $10.

http://theconsumerlink.com/Millett/detail/TCL+AL00720/0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I thought the rings and base were going to be more expensive than the scope. I guess I was way wrong. lol
Your are the man!

ta2dtrent · Post by **ta2dtrent** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:32 am

Thanks for putting on a great match guys...

Im extremely happy with my improvement over last months match.. I cant wait for the a clinic so someone can tell me what Im doing wrong now.

Post by **AR15barrels** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:38 am

para38super wrote:I thought the rings and base were going to be more expensive than the scope.

I paid $650 for the scope just before christmas.

coma · Post by **coma** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:09 am

Looks like a missed another good one!!

roypark · Post by **roypark** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:32 am

Although I didn't shoot particularly well, a couple things I've been able to gleen after thinking about the match:

1. DBM is at the top of my list of things to buy.
2. Don't forget to dial back down to zero after shooting a 200 yard stage, when shooting 100 yard dots.
3. I have to work on acquiring targets and shooting a faster.
4. Practice shooting right handed.
5. Practice different positions. (Off hand sucks)
6. When helping set up targets, take a look at the pool balls and remember where the 8 ball is, so as to not shoot it thinking it was the 7 ball.

I'm sure there is a ton of other stuff I don't even realize I need to work on, but this should keep me busy until the A clinic.

Post by **AR15barrels** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:35 am

roypark wrote:6. When helping set up targets, take a look at the pool balls and remember where the 8 ball is, so as to not shoot it thinking it was the 7 ball.

I could not tell which one was the 8 ball either.
There were 3 different balls that all looked solid black to me.
Good thing I hit every one of them!

roypark · Post by **roypark** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:38 am

AR15barrels wrote: I could not tell which one was the 8 ball either.
There were 3 different balls that all looked solid black to me.
Good thing I hit every one of them!

I guess that's the goal for someday. But for now, I will avoid the 8 ball like the plague.

brian01tj · Post by **brian01tj** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:45 am

John,

You have nothing to feel bad about. You earned Top 308 fair and square! I was really worried once they said seated position at 400 yards, especially knowing you did pretty good on stage number 6 (kneeling/seated). Again, you did a great job!

hochung · Post by **hochung** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:20 am

Here are the rest of the pics John and I took:

http://www.expeditionexchange.com/caprc010911/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Charlie, shoot me an email ( hochung@expeditionexchange.com ) so that I can email you high res version of the group photo.

Post by **AR15barrels** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:32 am

roypark wrote: I guess that's the goal for someday. But for now, I will avoid the 8 ball like the plague.

I shot the other 5 balls that I COULD tell were not the 8 ball.
I had good hits on all of them.
I figured as long as I hit the 3 remaining balls the same way, that I would be ok.
It was either that or not shoot ANY of the 3 balls and I did not want to give away that many points!

roypark · Post by **roypark** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:47 am

AR15barrels wrote: I shot the other 5 balls that I COULD tell were not the 8 ball.
I had good hits on all of them.
I figured as long as I hit the 3 remaining balls the same way, that I would be ok.
It was either that or not shoot ANY of the 3 balls and I did not want to give away that many points!

Bro, you're talking to the guy that stopped after two shots on the KYL. Hahaha. I know my limits.

Post by **AR15barrels** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:21 am

roypark wrote:you're talking to the guy that stopped after two shots on the KYL.

I stopped at 2 shots too.

264Charlie · Post by **264Charlie** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:21 pm

roypark wrote: Bro, you're talking to the guy that stopped after two shots on the KYL. Hahaha. I know my limits.

I should have... I missed the forth and lost all my points.

264Charlie · Post by **264Charlie** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:31 pm

roypark wrote:Although I didn't shoot particularly well, a couple things I've been able to gleen after thinking about the match:

1. DBM is at the top of my list of things to buy.
2. Don't forget to dial back down to zero after shooting a 200 yard stage, when shooting 100 yard dots.
3. I have to work on acquiring targets and shooting a faster.
4. Practice shooting right handed.
5. Practice different positions. (Off hand sucks)
6. When helping set up targets, take a look at the pool balls and remember where the 8 ball is, so as to not shoot it thinking it was the 7 ball.

I'm sure there is a ton of other stuff I don't even realize I need to work on, but this should keep me busy until the A clinic.

What power did you shot the transition stages on?

MichaelV · Post by **MichaelV** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:34 pm

AR15barrels wrote:
I stopped at 2 shots too.

Like cocktails, I stopped after three and all was good.

roypark · Post by **roypark** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:02 pm

The only power I have. 10x. But I have no excuse. John won top .308 with a 10x scope. I just gotta get better.

What power did you shot the transition stages on?

Connor P Price · Post by **Connor P Price** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:12 pm

264Charlie wrote:

I should have... I missed the forth and lost all my points.

By the time KYL came around I knew the match was a lost cause for me, so after drilling the 3rd shot I went after the 4th as well. You saw how that went for me. Zeroing the stage didn't mean much when I planned on throwing the match out from my points series scores anyway.

evo · Post by **evo** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:23 pm

Well, I improved my point total by almost double since my first match so I'm very pleased with that. I really need to work on my transitions and offhand shooting. These are by far my biggest weak points, I also need to stay away from the 8 ball. I must have pulled a shot that hit it (or hit it durring offhand

) because I knew exactly where it was and didn't think I even came close till we pulled the target down. I came within a hair of the second circle on the KYL, But I was just going too fast. The good news is that my weakside shooting is pretty strong and I did much better on the hostages this time round. I also need to find a new coldbore zero with my new loads.

johnlee · Post by **johnlee** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:38 pm

Connor P Price wrote:By the time KYL came around I knew the match was a lost cause for me, so after drilling the 3rd shot I went after the 4th as well. You saw how that went for me. Zeroing the stage didn't mean much when I planned on throwing the match out from my points series scores anyway.

It's easy to fall into this and give up when things aren't going well. I do it all the time. I think it's a mistake.

For example, here's Brian on Stage 9:

Brian had forgotten to load his magazine before this stage. Right as we were about to shoot, Brian said something like "oh shit" when he realized he hadn't loaded a magazine.

During the stage, you can tell Brian's given up. Look the expressions on his face and his body language. He's basically said fuck it.

Here's me on the pool balls stage:

I fucked up by not pulling the bolt to the rear before loading from my second magazine. Not only did I get a misfeed of the topmost round, but I shoved the lower rounds down into the magazine. Look at my face and my body language. I had given up. I'm actually pointing the mangled magazine to the camera because I think it's more interesting at the time than hitting my targets. On top of that, I started the stage with my elevation dial one mil high from the previous, 300-yard stage.

Brian and I were chit-chatting during the match before this, and both of us were saying how we violated the club motto by fucking up. I think both of us had sort of given up before the match was over.

Of course when it turned out at the end that we had tied for Top 308, we tried our asses off. But it was too late for both of us. The time to make it happen was during the match, not after.

I like Randall's philosophy of shooting every shot as though the match depended on it. And it does. Why should I try harder when I'm putting for eagle than when I'm putting for double bogey? A stroke is a stroke, isn't it?

Yesterday reminded me yet again that every single shot matters. Make each shot happen. There's no next shot. There's no next stage. There's no next match. The only shot I should be thinking about is the one I'm taking right now.

Here's another Keith moment that I'm digging:

Note how Keith's rifle isn't ejecting. What a disaster. But he doesn't give a shit. He just works around it. Just cool and the gang.

Keith scored 80 points on the standing stage, even with shitty ejection. He didn't let a bad situation spiral downward into a disaster.

roypark · Post by **roypark** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:49 pm

I have to say John is THE most encouraging member of this board.

Post by **AR15barrels** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:51 pm

johnlee wrote:

"Don't sling up, it doesn't help" :o

Connor P Price · Post by **Connor P Price** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:58 pm

johnlee wrote: It's easy to fall into this and give up when things aren't going well. I do it all the time. I think it's a mistake.

I wouldn't view what I did as giving up by any stretch of the imagination. I screwed up my zero while trying to zero my knobs at home with a new scope I was unfamiliar with, so I spent the first 3 stages trying to zero. Taking the 4th shot on the KYL wasn't me giving up, it was me pushing myself to my limits to see how far I could go. I could have left it at 3 shots which would have netted me more points, but it would still be my worst match of the year anyway. Instead I took a 4th shot and learned something from it. Either way, yesterday's match will be thrown out in my points score because I guarantee I will do better every time from here on out.

The old adage "dont fuck up" comes to mind when I think about yesterday. My equipment wasn't at fault for my terrible performance, I was. This time rather than fucking up on the firing line, I fucked up on my workbench at home a few nights before. That's something I'm going to have to remember.

264Charlie · Post by **264Charlie** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:11 pm

roypark wrote:I have to say John is THE most encouraging member of this board.

Agreed...

Post by **oni** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:30 pm

johnlee wrote:I'm digging this one of Keith:

Some may look at that clip and think it's a disaster. Keith doesn't chamber his first round. He has a hard time finding the 300-yard disc. He doesn't know when he closed his bolt over an empty magazine. Blah blah blah.

I don't see it that way. Keith accomplished there what I try to do but most times cannot do: he kept his cool. You can see that Keith had a hard time finding the 300-yard disc with his scope at max magnification. But he didn't panic. He didn't rush the shots after he finally found the disc because he wanted to get off all the shots before James called "time". There were no future shots in Keith's mind. The only shot that mattered was the one he was taking at that time. Previous shots didn't matter and neither did future ones. Keith just bangs one shot after another and they're all hits. He connected with every shot he discharged.

So Keith ran out of time and didn't get to bang the seventh shot. Who cares? Keith scored 120 points on that stage, even with those bobbles. He kept his cool. Like Fonzie.

In contrast, I got off all seven shots well within time. No bobbles or anything. I just shot at one target and moved to the next and then the next and so on. I scored 60 points on that stage.

John,

Thanks for posting this clip. There is a lot to be learned by myself and others watching it (can you film all my stages so I can review them later).

Note to myself and everyone else. I spent damn near 30 seconds (half the stage time) just trying to find the 300 yard steel. What I learned was it would have taken me less time to dial back my scope power, find the target, and power the scope backup rather than searching for it at max power. There are also a couple of other options for finding your targets with higher power scopes:

1) Dial back power and then back up
2) Shoot the scope at half power and know how that effects your Second Focal Plane reticle
3) Add a small red dot ontop of your scope rings and zero it for 3 or 4 hundrad yards. You can then use this to put the dot on target and then look back thru your scope. The target should then be within your Feild of View.

I got a good laugh out of reading your post before I watched the video. I like where you said I kept my cool but then at the end I yell out "DAMN" when James calls time.

I just want to thank James and Randall the most. When I started a year ago I didn't have a frackin clue what I was doing. My first time out with my rifle was at a B (Positional) clinic and I was completely lost. I didn't have a solid zero and James took the time to help me get one.

After that clinic I started to get better but it didn't really click until after Randall built my .260 and I went with him and Connor to a match in Phoenix. It was what I learned there that really started to bring everything into focus and things just started to click.

I highly suggest that if you have the time to go to an out of state match with Randall and crew. What you will learn there will change how you shoot.

johnlee wrote:I like Randall's philosophy of shooting every shot as though the match depended on it. And it does.

You have no idea how true this is and I just realized it at this match.

Had I hit my coldbore I would have tied Randall for 2nd.
Had I hit my coldbore and not shot a hostage I would have tied Mike for 1st.

Lessons Learned:

1) Don't shoot a coldbore with a clean barrel. If you clean your rifle before a match make sure you have time to go and shoot 5 to 10 rounds thru it before match day.

2) Don't shoot the white guy.

I just want to thank everyone who put on the match as well as the participents.
It was truely enjoyable and a great start for the club as well as the CaPRC 2011 season.

To everyone ... MAKE THE SHOT (DONT FUCK UP)

Post by **oni** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:33 pm

johnlee wrote: Note how Keith's rifle isn't ejecting. What a disaster. But he doesn't give a shit. He just works around it. Just cool and the gang.

Keith scored 80 points on the standing stage, even with shitty ejection. He didn't let a bad situation spiral downward into a disaster.

Tap, Rack, Bang

Who ever thought you would use that in a bolt action. :lol:

Post by **AR15barrels** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:56 pm

oni wrote:After that clinic I started to get better but it didn't really click until after Randall built my .260 and I went with him and Connor to a match in Phoenix. It was what I learned there that really started to bring everything into focus and things just started to click.

I highly suggest that if you have the time to go to an out of state match with Randall and crew. What you will learn there will change how you shoot.

Is that where you learned that Connor will rape anything with a pulse?
Now you know why I sleep with my ears open and shoot with my legs closed...

Post by **AR15barrels** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:58 pm

oni wrote:Tap, Rack, Bang

Who ever thought you would use that in a bolt action.

Post by **oni** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:00 pm

AR15barrels wrote:

I have that patch somewhere.

Ill wear to the next match.

Post by **AR15barrels** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:02 pm

oni wrote:I have that patch somewhere.

I have the middle one.

Post by **oni** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:04 pm

AR15barrels wrote:
I have the middle one.

So do I

johnlee · Post by **johnlee** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:58 pm

oni wrote:I got a good laugh out of reading your post before I watched the video. I like where you said I kept my cool but then at the end I yell out "DAMN" when James calls time.

Well, you yell "damn!", but I think it's important to note that you yell it after James calls time. That is, during the stage you're concentrating on hitting rather than thinking about all of the things that went wrong for you during that stage. The same is true during your standing stage. You shake your head at the end of the video, but it's after the buzzer sounds.

Compare those two videos to my pool balls video, where I'm showing the mangled magazine to Ho. It's almost like, "Hey Ho, check out how I fucked up and caused the rounds to nose-dive in the magazine like that. Isn't that interesting?" This cluster is happening during the stage, not after it. I should be concentrating on fixing the problem or getting the gun back up and running or hitting the targets or whatever. Anything but "Hey, check this out."

You didn't give up. I did.

Juice5610 · Post by **Juice5610** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:24 pm

oni wrote:
So do I

me 3 lol

GforceJunkie · Post by **GforceJunkie** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:42 pm

I noticed the difficulty finding the 300 yard steel as well, and this worked for me. During the prep period, I made a mental note on what was straight up from my the 100 target ( think it was a black steel pig) and noticed the bushes that were in the bottom of my field of view as I panned left. So To get to the 300 target, I panned straight up to that pig, then swept left to the target. By plotting out fixed points, and taking a mental picture of how they looked through the scope, I was able to transition pretty quickly and not have to hunt for it. Now, if my accuracy was just better...

oni wrote: 1) Dial back power and then back up
2) Shoot the scope at half power and know how that effects your Second Focal Plane reticle
3) Add a small red dot ontop of your scope rings and zero it for 3 or 4 hundrad yards. You can then use this to put the dot on target and then look back thru your scope. The target should then be within your Feild of View.

6079Winston · Post by **6079Winston** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:56 pm

Thanks for putting on another fun and efficient match, especially to those who sat it out to put it on. Also thanks to John and Ho for the video and pictures of what we did, whether right or wrong. Nine stages, three relays, 25 shooters and you finish early? Awesome.

Seth8541 · Post by **Seth8541** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:11 pm

GforceJunkie wrote:I noticed the difficulty finding the 300 yard steel as well, and this worked for me. During the prep period, I made a mental note on what was straight up from my the 100 target ( think it was a black steel pig) and noticed the bushes that were in the bottom of my field of view as I panned left. So To get to the 300 target, I panned straight up to that pig, then swept left to the target. By plotting out fixed points, and taking a mental picture of how they looked through the scope, I was able to transition pretty quickly and not have to hunt for it. Now, if my accuracy was just better...

Make a range card. First thing you should do when you get to the location you will be shooting at.

Juice5610 · Post by **Juice5610** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:13 pm

oni wrote:
I highly suggest that if you have the time to go to an out of state match with Randall and crew. What you will learn there will change how you shoot.

I couldn't agree more with what's posted above. I picked Randall's brain on the way to Vegas and on the way to Arizona AND on the way back home. I've placed in the top 10 twice out of the 3 matches I've shot. That mans brain is worth its weight in gold you just have to ask the right questions. I had a great time just helping out and if you guys are ever short a hand just let me know I will gladly sit it out and help run a match again. See you guys next month!

Gobig · Post by **Gobig** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:47 pm

Great pics/vids...looks like you guys had a great time! I was there (at the range) just further up...closer to the restrooms. Maybe next time!

johnlee · Post by **johnlee** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:11 pm

oni wrote:You have no idea how true this is and I just realized it at this match.

Had I hit my coldbore I would have tied Randall for 2nd.
Had I hit my coldbore and not shot a hostage I would have tied Mike for 1st.

Cold bore is a 50-pointer. Here's one even better. Remember the December match results?:

AR15barrels wrote:Scores were as follows:
723 Ryan K 243 Winchester
721 Seth R 260 Remington
565 John L (top 308 shooter)
549 Ho C 308 Winchester

Only two points separated Ryan and Seth. That's one shot.

Only 16 points separated Ho and me. That's one shot. If Ho had made only more shot out of the 50 shots that day, then he would have won both the Bronze and Top 308 in his rookie match. How awesome would that have been? But because of that one shot, the only thing Ho took home that day was a tear-stained paper bag full of his empties. Even to this day, Ho lives in a teary-eyed agony that his business partner kicked his ass by one shot.

Every shot matters.

GforceJunkie · Post by **GforceJunkie** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:26 am

Did I see someone shooting an AR? How'd it do? With only 2 shots over 300 yards, I can't imagine an accurate AR would have been too far out of the running if the shooter did his part.

brian01tj · Post by **brian01tj** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:25 am

GforceJunkie wrote:Did I see someone shooting an AR? How'd it do? With only 2 shots over 300 yards, I can't imagine an accurate AR would have been too far out of the running if the shooter did his part.

So long as the at shot accurate enough for the paper stages then it should've had an advantage due to it being semi and that takes out one step and allows for faster follow ups

264Charlie · Post by **264Charlie** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:44 am

If you have a AR that shoots 75gr plus bullets at or under .5 MOA and you are a .5 MOA shooter you would do very well at local matches. Bolt guns have almost been replaced by 10/22s at 22LR matches because you don't have to cycle the bolt. Randall shot a .223 and did very well using a 12x scope to boot. I bet if Ryan shows up with a AR one month he would still win.

johnlee · Post by **johnlee** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:15 am

Jeff got second place in the night match with that same AR/scope/ammo combination.

Swan · Post by **Swan** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:38 pm

264Charlie wrote:... I bet if Ryan shows up with a AR one month he would still win.

Now thats not a bad idea.

johnlee · Post by **johnlee** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:10 pm

khw9mm wrote:That's a sweet Rollie! It's either that or the Daytonas.

Kevin, you dig the Daytona?

For Kevin:

6079Winston · Post by **6079Winston** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:05 pm

My AR is definitely not holding me back, that's my own fault or faults. The rifle is pretty much a NRA Service Rifle with a bipod and scope. Ammo is about the same 77gr SMK and RL-15, which is silly accurate out to 400 yards. I got my 400yd hard dope at Angeles by shooting the horizontal crossbar supporting a few of the smaller metal targets. Prone bipod and rear bag 200 yard 5 shot groups average about .5 moa, including those spoiled by operator induced fliers. It's not just an advantage in rate of fire but also in not having to break position to reload between shots. If you watch Ho's video you can see me shooting the standing stage. Not that I did too well, but I look pretty relaxed doing it. A bullet button would be an issue for a non regd AW, but I don't think it would be a deal breaker on most stages. If anyone wants to shoot it after a match or if you can convince Ryan to shoot it in a match just let me know.

johnlee · Post by **johnlee** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:08 pm

Jeff's AR is very accurate. When I'm shooting for group, I can sometimes make 30-caliber holes touch, but I never seem to be able to make .22-caliber holes touch except when I shoot Jeff's AR.

GforceJunkie · Post by **GforceJunkie** » Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:40 pm

I just noticed 3 or 4 pairs of shooters that scored the same...how was one shooter placed higher over the other? I know the top .308 guys had a shoot off, but the others?

Post by **AR15barrels** » Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:47 pm

GforceJunkie wrote:I just noticed 3 or 4 pairs of shooters that scored the same...how was one shooter placed higher over the other? I know the top .308 guys had a shoot off, but the others?

Those are ties.
The order of listing is purely based on points earned.

GforceJunkie · Post by **GforceJunkie** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 1:12 pm

Points earned...where? Wasn't this the first match of the year? Can points be earned in other matches that contibute to an overall points count? I'm just trying to understand how this all works.

AR15barrels wrote:
Those are ties.
The order of listing is purely based on points earned.