CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

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AR15barrels
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CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by AR15barrels »

We had 19 shooters show up to shoot today's match out of 17 RSVP's.
6 were 1st time caprc match shooters.
Brad, Connor & Keith ran the match.
maddesign, Southpaw58, Emilio, DavidRSA & NotoriousPDL helped run the line.
Total round count for the day was 50.
There were 10 stages with 1000 total points possible.

The course of fire was as follows:

Stage 1
300yd Coldbore
Start position: Standing at yellow line, port arms, bolt open.
On the start signal, engage your 3” shoot-n-see circle at 300yds with one shot.
Round count: 1
60 points for a hit
60 points possible
60 second shoot time

Stage 2
400yd Barricade
Start position: Standing at yellow line, port arms, bolt open.
On the start signal, engage the 10" green/yellow plate with three shots from each level of the barricade.
Round count: 9
15 points per hit
135 points possible
90 second shoot time

Stage 3
300yd Timed exposures
Start position: Prone, rifle on target, bolt closed.
On the start signal, engage the left little man with 1 shot then engage the right little man with 1 shot. There will be 3 separate start signals at random time intervals once the stage begins.
Round count: 6
20 points for a hit
120 points possible
5 second shoot time per string, 3 strings in 70 seconds

Stage 4
200yd little man speed drill
Start position: Standing at start line, rifle on target, bolt open.
On the start signal, engage the little men from left to right with one shot each.
Round count: 8
15 points for a hit
120 points possible
60 second shoot time

Stage 5
500yd Benchtop
Start position: Standing at yellow line, port arms, bolt open.
On the start signal, engage the 8" green plate with 4 shots. No rear support may be used, bare hand only.
Round count: 4
20 points for a hit
80 points possible
40 second shoot time

Stage 6
400yd weakside
Start position: Standing at yellow line, rifle on target, bolt open.
On the start signal, engage the 6" flappers in the following order: left right left right.
Round count: 4
20 points for a hit
80 points possible
40 second shoot time

Stage 7
300yd seated
Start position: Seated, rifle on target, bolt open.
On the start signal, engage the 8" plate with 5 shots.
Round count: 5
25 points for a hit
125 points possible
40 second shoot time

Stage 8
longrange transistions
Start position: Standing at yellow line, 1 round in hand, rifle on target, bolt open.
On the start signal, engage the green plates in the following order: 600-500-600-400-600. Shooter must retrieve one round at a time from the back bench.
Round count: 5
20 points per hit
100 points possible
90 second shoot time

Stage 9
200yd unsupported suits
Start position: Unsupported prone, rifle on target, bolt open.
On each start signal, engage the specified suit with one shot. Repeat until all 4 suits have been engaged.
Round count: 4
25 points per hit
100 points possible
80 second shoot time

Stage 10
200yd man on man
Start position: Standing at yellow line, rifle on pack, bolt open.
On the start signal, engage the little men from left to right with one shot each. Winner decided by number of hits then ties broken by time. No bipod support allowed.
Round count: 4
20 points per hit
80 points possible
60 second shoot time


Scores were as follows:
510 Randall R
460 Nathan W
460 Ray R
440 Mike S
435 Brian L
400 Rich G
380 Michael V
340 Eddie J
305 Brandon M
295 John L
275 Evan G
270 Ho C
200 Steven R
190 Tyler F
185 Tyler S
135 Mike L
135 Shavarsh A
75 Charles H
50 James Q

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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by Short Action Precision »

Thanks for posting Randall.
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by brian01tj »

???? Wrong Results
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by Smitty »

Tried to fix typo but I guess its not a typo......
Last edited by Smitty on Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by Short Action Precision »

Did the same thing!! Fail!!
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by AR15barrels »

I'll get the rest of the AAR posted tonight...
brian01tj wrote:???? Wrong Results
Smitty wrote:Tried to fix typo but I guess its not a typo......
Iloveguns wrote:Did the same thing!! Fail!!
I changed the date on the picture link, but the web server decided to post another picture because it thought it knew what I wanted.
Then I scrambled the img code to get nothing to display.
Damn you guys are anxious!

Keith's picture will have to do for now.
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by johnlee »

Some cold-bore action from yesterday:







Other vids are still loading.
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by savagE »

8th place! Looks like I'm finally moving up in the world.
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by MichaelV »

I like that sweet Victor Co shirt video... nice work Ho and John!
Last edited by MichaelV on Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by NotoriousPDL »

I'll post pics later tonight... Most will be from stage 5...
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by johnlee »

AR15barrels wrote:Brad, Connor & Keith ran the match.
maddesign, Southpaw58, Emilio, DavidRSA & NotoriousPDL helped run the line.
Thanks to you guys for giving up one of your Sundays to put together the match. I ate shit yesterday, so you just know it was a fun match.

Some barricade vids:







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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by Dive N Shoot »

So.....
Any names to go along with that score sheet?
Iloveguns wrote: Roxy pattern in camo would be cool.
ColdSteel wrote: Damn dude!? You use your hands?

Kinky...
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by Short Action Precision »

Dive N Shoot wrote:So.....
Any names to go along with that score sheet?
AR15barrels wrote:Just posting this up as a placeholder so Ho can post his pictures and videos...
I'll get the final results posted tonight.
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by johnlee »

Some more:



















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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by Juice5610 »

Iloveguns wrote:




Read jack ass!
:lol:
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by johnlee »











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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by DirtRacer151 »

@ 1:10 :shock: :?
You almost ate those words Randall.
Just remember guys if it aint in the COF then it aint a rule.






Good shooting guys.
Congrats to Randall
Nathan, you are my new hero
and everyone one else who shot congrats as well!!
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by StraightShooter »

Rough day for me, 4 zeroed stages! Probably the best CAPRC match I have been to. Nice and challenging with a good amount of variety. Great job to all the guys that put it on and to the top finishers.
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by bcrich »

Zero'ed a few stages myself.....Man I'm getting old, I couldnt see the damn heart,spade,diamond or club for shit! That and my scope sucks!!!! congrats to you sharpshooters! and also the homies that ran the lines and match!
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by AR15barrels »

bcrich wrote:Zero'ed a few stages myself.....
I couldnt see the damn heart,spade,diamond or club for shit!
Same here.
Missed my coldbore and zeroed my weakside.
I shot the wrong plates for clubs and spades, hit them both, but no score for that...
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by AR15barrels »

DirtRacer151 wrote:Just remember guys if it aint in the COF then it aint a rule.
Guys are not figuring this out well enough yet.
We specifically wrote the barricade COF to state 3 rounds from EACH level.
We did not specify that you had to start standing, then go kneeling, then seated.
I didn't see anyone take advantage of that and shoot sitting, then kneeling then standing to better use the possible time allotted on the more stable shots first.
Even I forgot to do it!
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by savagE »

AR15barrels wrote:
Guys are not figuring this out well enough yet.
We specifically wrote the barricade COF to state 3 rounds from EACH level.
We did not specify that you had to start standing, then go kneeling, then seated.
I didn't see anyone take advantage of that and shoot sitting, then kneeling then standing to better use the possible time allotted on the more stable shots first.
Even I forgot to do it!
Wow, I didn't even think of doing that. I'll be looking for that next time
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by AR15barrels »

StraightShooter wrote:Probably the best CAPRC match I have been to. Nice and challenging with a good amount of variety.
Summer is the slow season for all shooting sports so we have a chance to do more single shooter steel stages.
Once the match attendence starts climbing back up after summer, we will probably have to go back to 6 steel stages and 4 paper stages.
I can't see running 24 people through 9 steel stages and getting done before everyone is worn out...
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by johnlee »

This last match was a disaster for me. I zeroed three stages and violated the club rule at least twice. On the timed exposures, I shot at the flappers on top of the 400-yard berm for all six shots. I didn't even realize I had screwed up until I was about to shoot the weak-handed stage. On the man vs. man, I started with the wrong dope and my first shot hit well above the rack.

On the barricades, I did my usual and just burned through the standing and kneeling to try to get off three solid sitting shots. It didn't work. I forgot to sling up for that stage too. What a disaster.

On Nathan's sitting position with the bipod on his feet, I'm with Randall that that's not "sitting". I realize Nathan's stature makes positions like slung sitting and slung prone very difficult or perhaps even impossible for him, but that doesn't mean he should be able to use a bipod. At least that's how I see it. I'm glad Nathan shot really well in the match even without the bipod. Now, if only he would get rid of that gay tactical pillow.

Some more vids:







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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by DirtRacer151 »

johnlee wrote:
On Nathan's sitting position with the bipod on his feet, I'm with Randall that that's not "sitting". I realize Nathan's stature makes positions like slung sitting and slung prone very difficult or perhaps even impossible for him, but that doesn't mean he should be able to use a bipod. At least that's how I see it.
What if i would have busted out SoCal sitting? would that have been ok? I'm pretty sure i didnt see it in the COF anywhere that stated something about NRA legal positions only.

Many guys sit the rifle or bipod on their knees or their boots and nobody ever says anything. Just because Nathan looks different while doing it doesn't make it any different. What i see him doing in that video looks %100 legit to me. Now if BEFORE the stage ever started and a MD decided to add to the COF OR the cof stated it in the first place that there should be no support below the knees then i would agree with you John. No dice here though buddy... good job Nathan!

just for the records i haven't shot socal sitting in a match in over a year. I don't think it benefits me one bit in the long run. If i ever decide i need to make up some points in a match and the rules don't say i can't then you bitches better look out ;) :mrgreen:
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by AR15barrels »

DirtRacer151 wrote:What if i would have busted out SoCal sitting? would that have been ok? I'm pretty sure i didnt see it in the COF anywhere that stated something about NRA legal positions only.
Im so glad I have other people acting like gamers to take the spotlight off of me. :mrgreen:
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by DirtRacer151 »

AR15barrels wrote:
Im so glad I have other people acting like gamers to take the spotlight off of me. :mrgreen:
Where do you think we learned it from? ;)
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by AR15barrels »

DirtRacer151 wrote:
Where do you think we learned it from? ;)
There was never any question about that!
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by NotoriousPDL »

Here are some shots from the match, I have a few more I have to upload. Also not all are here, click on any of the photos and it will take you to the flickr album.

Image

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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by AR15barrels »

This is a great picture:

Image
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by GforceJunkie »

hence the reason the club needs a rule book that spells out the terms we use ie "sitting" "Prone without support" "kneeling" etc.
DirtRacer151 wrote:
What if i would have busted out SoCal sitting? would that have been ok? I'm pretty sure i didnt see it in the COF anywhere that stated something about NRA legal positions only.

Many guys sit the rifle or bipod on their knees or their boots and nobody ever says anything. Just because Nathan looks different while doing it doesn't make it any different. What i see him doing in that video looks %100 legit to me. Now if BEFORE the stage ever started and a MD decided to add to the COF OR the cof stated it in the first place that there should be no support below the knees then i would agree with you John. No dice here though buddy... good job Nathan!

just for the records i haven't shot socal sitting in a match in over a year. I don't think it benefits me one bit in the long run. If i ever decide i need to make up some points in a match and the rules don't say i can't then you bitches better look out ;) :mrgreen:
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by johnlee »

AR15barrels wrote:This is a great picture:

Image
Agreed. That one deserves a supersize:

Image

Great pics, Mike. You should take pics at every match. Thanks for taking pics and sharing.
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by johnlee »









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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by Gnzrme »

why are they such great photos... That was a funny point in the match.. totally slept through prep/reading the COF for that stage... Hence forth, I shot at the wrong target..
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by DirtRacer151 »

GforceJunkie wrote:hence the reason the club needs a rule book that spells out the terms we use ie "sitting" "Prone without support" "kneeling" etc.
I'll agree the club needs a basic rule book but not to combat gaming. Id rather see specific rules written into each cof. It makes them unique and always different. There is times a MD will write a cof in such a way that its MEANT to be gamed. The ones who are on their toes and being innovative are meant to benefit. That's what practical shooting is all about. Go watch the military channel and check out the top sniper competitions... You will see a basic cof given and then its up to each competitor to figure out how they are going to do it best. That's what makes this type of rifle competition fun. If we adopt a strict rule book then we might as well become recognizedby the nra and let them make all our rules. Of course then you might as well stick to caprc matches because Vegas and AZ matches would be no different. Lax rules is what makes tactical what it is. If the MD wants a stage shot a certain way then its up to them to write it into the cof. If it ain't in the cof then its game on!! :mrgreen:
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by snappy »

The reason we put the unsupported positions on the COF is not so you can game the system, put to make you
better all round shooter. If you use a props and tricks on a regular basis, then you only hurt your self. Some major
matches will let you use packs or pillows and some wont. And if you become known as a major gamer at matches
it will follow you around for a long time.

We have had unsupported positions in three of the last four matches and you will most likely see them again.
So I would suggest that every body invest in a sling and start getting in positions that aren't that comfy.

And if you show up to our match with intend to game it and not pay attention to the line officers,
Look at the score sheet for shooter 5A stage 7. That's a DQ next to the zero.
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by DEMjunior »

Would anyone happen to have a picture of the coldbore targets?
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by DirtRacer151 »

snappy wrote:The reason we put the unsupported positions on the COF is not so you can game the system, put to make you
better all round shooter. If you use a props and tricks on a regular basis, then you only hurt your self. Some major
matches will let you use packs or pillows and some wont. And if you become known as a major gamer at matches
it will follow you around for a long time.

We have had unsupported positions in three of the last four matches and you will most likely see them again.
So I would suggest that every body invest in a sling and start getting in positions that aren't that comfy.

And if you show up to our match with intend to game it and not pay attention to the line officers,
Look at the score sheet for shooter 5A stage 7. That's a DQ next to the zero.
I love it when grandpa tries to act all cool. ;)

I'll remember this post next time the MD tells you that you must shoot from the top of the post and your gaming ass ties your sling off to the side of it and takes a seat instead..... friggin gamer :)

Unfortunately he's right though. Gaming may get you points for this one match but when the MD wisens up and writes out your schenanigans next time then you're at a disadvantage because you didn't practice it the right way last time. I still don't think there's any reason to write a rule book. I thought grandpas gaming at west end was genius... It showed thinking outside the box and it earned him points for his efforts. Some people cry when they get out smarted and then there's those who choose to follow and be innovative themselves.

Long story short... Grandpa and Randall are the KINGS of gaming. I'm not hating though :mrgreen:
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by Short Action Precision »

Brad I understand what you mean but what I was taught by you guys to look for any advantage in the cof. Even Randall just wrote that, yet he said my position was no go. One of the matches a few months ago had "unsupported seated, Kneeling and prone". This months just had seated. Big difference in those two I think. Would my bipod fly in big matches probably not but I bet for some stages it would. I know that it only holds me back but adapting is a huge part of this sport that makes me love it. Other wise I would be screwed. If the COF does not say "Unsupported" then it should have been cool. Also next time don't ask for another competitors opinion!! Your the MD. Im glad that I took a zero with out using it then take some points with people bitching and still get 2nd. But if the COF and the MD says its cool then fuck them. Anyways no sour feelings just my thoughts on what I was taught for this sport. Huge thanks for running a great match Brad. Also thanks to all the spotters and helpers.
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by MichaelV »

snappy wrote:The reason we put the unsupported positions on the COF is not so you can game the system, put to make you
better all round shooter. If you use a props and tricks on a regular basis, then you only hurt your self. Some major
matches will let you use packs or pillows and some wont. And if you become known as a major gamer at matches
it will follow you around for a long time.
+1

I hate to see people try to game every stage and get into weird positions to push the rules. Everyone knows what standing/sitting and kneeling is, you're only cheating yourself if you try to eke out a couple points by gaming the COF.

eta- my comment is not aimed at Nathan or anyone in particular, it's just an observation from many matches.
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by MichaelV »

Ho you look good as a lefty! Way to go!

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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by snappy »

I will try to write the COF more clearly from now on as to remove some of the confusion.
I dont want to get to the point where we have a paragraph for each stage description.

And James, the cof for the pole stated you had to use the pole for support, not the top.
Then Mark added the top plates and changed the rule. Ok still gaming.
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by johnlee »

I think these are the last ones.













Congratulations to the top finishers. Special congratulations to Nathan for 2nd and Top 308. I'm proud of you.
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by MichaelV »

johnlee wrote: On Nathan's sitting position with the bipod on his feet, I'm with Randall that that's not "sitting". I realize Nathan's stature makes positions like slung sitting and slung prone very difficult or perhaps even impossible for him, but that doesn't mean he should be able to use a bipod.]
What's funny about that "sitting bipod on toes" position is the first time I saw it two Marine Scout-Snipers used it in the SCPRC match in 2009. Mark let them run with it and since then I've seen a few guys try it at matches with not much success.
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by DirtRacer151 »

snappy wrote:I will try to write the COF more clearly from now on as to remove some of the confusion.
I dont want to get to the point where we have a paragraph for each stage description.

And James, the cof for the pole stated you had to use the pole for support, not the top.
Then Mark added the top plates and changed the rule. Ok still gaming.
An easy way to get around having to write a paragraph would be to just write it at the top in a general match description.

I'm not arguing that I don't agree. I shoot traditional positions myself because I knew it was time I learn it the right way or be left in the dirt when it came time to do it at a real match. It has helped me a lot! I'm very confident in my sling game now.

I just hate to see so many rules. I really did enjoy seeing you game the west end match and I agree it was well within the cof rules even though we all knew it wasn't what the MD had intended. I like seeing that sort of thing even if it means I get beat on a stage. It's good for our sport to be innovative. Let's not ruin this sport with lame rules.

Everyone knows we are wannabe snipers and ill be damned if a real sniper is going to think back to his match rules when deciding to take his next shot using his bipod on his feet or not. If it works then use it!! We all have the same chances so don't bitches because someone else is willing to go out on a limb and your stuck doing it the old fashioned way because you don't like gaming.

Do you guys remember the pandemonium at TBRC 2010 when Socal was doing Socal seated and cleaning sitting stages? Haha even though we knew it was gaming it was within the cof description and Vu made the right call to let it go since it was too late to change the cof and wouldn't have been right. Sometimes MDs are the only ones who get pissed from gaming but a good MD will do the right thing if the competitor is within the cof.

MV.... I'll bet you own an AR with a bullet button right? Do you think the doj thinks you're gaming? I'll guarantee they didn't have your radlock in mind when they wrote their cof. :mrgreen:
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by Bajaracer »

Nice shooting Nate !
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by Sysops »

Even though I sucked match wise, those videos made me look pretty damn good! good thing no one was calling misses!
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by AR15barrels »

Sysops wrote:Even though I sucked match wise, those videos made me look pretty damn good! good thing no one was calling misses!
Don't worry, anyone who has been at our matches knows that NOT hearing "Impact" is the same as hearing "Miss"... ;)
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by GforceJunkie »

DirtRacer151 wrote: An easy way to get around having to write a paragraph would be to just write it at the top in a general match description.
Spelling out what is allowed and disallowed on every stage of every COF of every match...the COF is going to look like a frigging book! I agree, fewer rules are generally better, but its clear people are going to game, some people are going to come up with positions or helpers that are not the intent of the COF writer. We are, and will continue to deal with this. To be fair, its either a freeforall, or we set guidlines that everyone understands and follows. Why not just spell it out, once, in a rule book, and be done? If the COF writer wants a particularly "loose" or "gamey" stage, then they can write that in on those occationsal stages. Example: Engage 10" steel target through baracade port with 5 rounds." That is wide open, any shape or form of position, support, or gamesmen ship is fine. Example 2: Engage 10" steel target from the sitting position. This would be crystal clear if "sitting position" was in a rule book to say something along the lines of: "Sitting position: Competitor sits on the ground on their buttocks with no other part of their body above the waist or rifle touching the ground. A sling is permitted. Rifle may be braced with the sling, legs, knees, or feet. No bipods, shooting sticks or other forms of artifical support may be used." Then we only have to spell it out once.
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Re: CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

Post by DirtRacer151 »

GforceJunkie wrote:
Spelling out what is allowed and disallowed on every stage of every COF of every match...the COF is going to look like a frigging book! I agree, fewer rules are generally better, but its clear people are going to game, some people are going to come up with positions or helpers that are not the intent of the COF writer. We are, and will continue to deal with this. To be fair, its either a freeforall, or we set guidlines that everyone understands and follows. Why not just spell it out, once, in a rule book, and be done? If the COF writer wants a particularly "loose" or "gamey" stage, then they can write that in on those occationsal stages. Example: Engage 10" steel target through baracade port with 5 rounds." That is wide open, any shape or form of position, support, or gamesmen ship is fine. Example 2: Engage 10" steel target from the sitting position. This would be crystal clear if "sitting position" was in a rule book to say something along the lines of: "Sitting position: Competitor sits on the ground on their buttocks with no other part of their body above the waist or rifle touching the ground. A sling is permitted. Rifle may be braced with the sling, legs, knees, or feet. No bipods, shooting sticks or other forms of artifical support may be used." Then we only have to spell it out once.
Why not just write at the top of the COF... "positions in this COF are to be shot using the NRA rulebook as a guideline. Sling use is ok on any stage unless noted. Any additional support will be noted in each stage description". If the intent of the MD is to allow improvised positions then they simply would just leave that note out for the month. ;)

We had this discussion last year. Its pretty cut and dry what the NRA says is ok and isn't. If i remember correctly the riles for the sitting position is something like... butt on the ground, rifle supported by hands only, no elbow support below the knees, buttstock in shoulder pocket. Thats pretty cut and dry. Trust me... using those guidelines i tried for 2 nights straight to figure out an improvised position with no luck.
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