CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

GforceJunkie · Post by **GforceJunkie** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:43 pm

I'm cool with that...we just need to do _something_ or its BS to pick on Nathan for breaking something that is not a rule.

DirtRacer151 wrote: Why not just write at the top of the COF... "positions in this COF are to be shot using the NRA rulebook as a guideline. Sling use is ok on any stage unless noted. Any additional support will be noted in each stage description". If the intent of the MD is to allow improvised positions then they simply would just leave that note out for the month. ;)

Short Action Precision · Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:59 pm

GforceJunkie wrote:I'm cool with that...we just need to do _something_ or its BS to pick on Nathan for breaking something that is not a rule.

For the record I did not use the bipod this last match and Im not the first to use one like that. Only thing that needed to be said in the COF was Unsupported Seated. Thats it. That was written in the COF a few months ago and I did not even attempt to use it.

vu308 · Post by **vu308** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:59 pm

Ahem..................

due to such flexible shooters, we had to implement the standards we have today.....

postal16 · Post by **postal16** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:33 pm

vu308 wrote:Ahem..................

due to such flexible shooters, we had to implement the standards we have today.....

LOL!

peerless · Post by **peerless** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:46 pm

I like to thank those who organized the match,and those who helped.
John , thanks for the pics and vid"s takes a lot of work.

GforceJunkie · Post by **GforceJunkie** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:30 pm

I know, but you should have been able to use your bipod. There is no CAPRC definition of sitting and the COF did not prohibit it. All I'm saying, if there are rules, write them down or STFU.

Iloveguns wrote:
For the record I did not use the bipod this last match and Im not the first to use one like that. Only thing that needed to be said in the COF was Unsupported Seated. Thats it. That was written in the COF a few months ago and I did not even attempt to use it.

hochung · Post by **hochung** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:52 pm

I suggest one of the matches to allow everything and anything. pillow, bag, bipod, tripod, whatever clever support you can come up with, etc. I doubt anyone would come close to the possible 1000 points.

DirtRacer151 · Post by **DirtRacer151** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:00 pm

GforceJunkie wrote:I know, but you should have been able to use your bipod. There is no CAPRC definition of sitting and the COF did not prohibit it. All I'm saying, if there are rules, write them down or STFU.

my thoughts as well...

in a nutshell :lol:

brian01tj · Post by **brian01tj** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:00 pm

hochung wrote:I suggest one of the matches to allow everything and anything. pillow, bag, bipod, tripod, whatever clever support you can come up with, etc. I doubt anyone would come close to the possible 1000 points.

Exactly, I agree and it would be a fun match lol

Juice5610 · Post by **Juice5610** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:15 pm

GforceJunkie wrote:I know, but you should have been able to use your bipod. There is no CAPRC definition of sitting and the COF did not prohibit it. All I'm saying, if there are rules, write them down or STFU.

+1 this is the second or third ime nathan hasn't been allowed to game even though it would be 100% within the limitations of the COF. He found a weakness in it and tried to exploit it just like other CAPRC members have done at other matches... Hypocrisy at its finest.

GforceJunkie · Post by **GforceJunkie** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:25 pm

I agree, and this is where carefull stage planning comes into play. A course designer can make stages that de facto force a particular position, and exclude others. Want a standing sling support only stage? Put up a 4 foot barricade that you are not allowed to touch. Unsupported prone without a sling? Have them start rifle down, behind the yellow line and a 8 second shot time. Nobody will have time to sling up. Want to prevent 50 pound Benchrest front rests? Start port arms and require all support to be carried with the shooter.

hochung wrote:I suggest one of the matches to allow everything and anything. pillow, bag, bipod, tripod, whatever clever support you can come up with, etc. I doubt anyone would come close to the possible 1000 points.

MichaelV · Post by **MichaelV** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:24 am

vu308 wrote:Ahem..................

due to such flexible shooters, we had to implement the standards we have today.....

Cracking me up! Looks like an armed yoga class... :lol:

postal16 · Post by **postal16** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:38 am

MichaelV wrote:
Cracking me up! Looks like an armed yoga class...

I am jealouse...my Pepsi belly would never allow me to use this position!

Post by **AR15barrels** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:17 am

hochung wrote:I suggest one of the matches to allow everything and anything. pillow, bag, bipod, tripod, whatever clever support you can come up with, etc. I doubt anyone would come close to the possible 1000 points.

Be careful what you wish for...

I have shot stages where you have to shoot through a 6" square that's 5yds in front of you.
hmmm, you guys are in trouble next month...

hochung · Post by **hochung** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:18 am

bring it bitch.

I can't make it to the August match anyways. LOL

Post by **AR15barrels** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:20 am

hochung wrote:bring it bitch.

Oh, it's coming.
I know Nick is building the new plywood for a sheet of shooting ports.

vu308 · Post by **vu308** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:23 pm

No real dog in this fight, but having been on both sides of the line as a competitor and MD, I'll throw in my 2 pennies.

From a MD point of view:

If the COF is not clear that a competitor may not use a certain support device, then competitors will do what they need to do to make hits. A good example was posted above when a few guys used "so cal sitting" to clean a few of the stages at the 2010 TBRC. They did not use any mechanical support devices so it was completely legal per the COF we gave them. This did prompt us to ensure we describe what we want in the sitting position from that day on. Notice our sitting stages are described as NRA style, sling only, no other support devices, and the rifle has to be in your shoulder and not supported by your lap.

Competitors will always be competitors and want to gain the upper hand by trying to solve the problem the MD has put in front of them. It is the MD's job to ensure he or she writes the COF clear enough to get the desired results, and force the shooter to shoot the stage as designed.

Stages and rules should never be changed once the COF has been given.

Telling a competitor he isn’t going to win anyways, and to go ahead is a complete lack of professionalism on the line. Also, making some comment about giving Nathan a pass because of his height is BS. I don't think he was asking for any special treatment when trying to use the bi-pod. This was the same as all of us putting bi pods on our packs at SCPRC back in 2009 for the seated COF. I was blown away myself when Mark said it's OK after I asked about a few others doing it. Everyone smoked that stage I believe.

From the competitor point of view:

I am going to do what it takes to ensure I get as many hits as possible. However, our discipline does rely heavily on the shooters honor and integrity. Personally, I hate gamers and don't want that type of shooter at the events I help put on. I also dislike the shooter that holds up the whole squad asking "what if I did X questions. Or would X be OK, if I did X". Once you are labeled a gamer, it sticks with you.

Post by **Gnzrme** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:00 pm

Jicko...

vu308 · Post by **vu308** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:10 pm

LMAO.......I didn't even have to say it....

I actually mentioned that whole incident, but took it out of the post.

Post by **Gnzrme** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:56 pm

And whats even more funny? I wasnt even in the rifle game when that occurred and I have heard about it so many times and from more than one person....

Then when Randall and I went to AZ, I actually got to met him in person and yes, there were several times that he was asking questions trying to push the limits... Vu, you were on the other squad, so you didn't get to see this 1st hand, but I guess it doesnt change...

CaPRC 7/10/11 Match AAR

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